Tithing Envelopes

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Gib, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Gib

    Gib
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    Do you use them for your regular tithing? Are they necessary? Why would you want to use them? Why wouldn't you want to use them?

    Just wondering...
     
  2. whatever

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    Our church uses them to make record keeping (for tax purposes) easier. I cannot think of a reason to not use them, but I am sure that I am wrong, lol.
     
  3. Salty

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    I do not use them. I dont make enough to itemize, so there is no need.

    The IRS is really coming down hard on $$ to charities, so it is imperative that churches keep excellent records on donations. In fact, a canceled check is not sufficient evidence you gave. In theory, you could have written a check, say for a dinner given by the church (then you must deduct the retail value from the donation) or who know, you just wrote a check and the church gave you cash.


    salty
     
  4. BarryJ

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    Re. Tithing Envelopes

    I count money at church and the main reason I would say to use them would be when using cash. This would give a record.
     
  5. quidam65

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    QUOTE:
    In fact, a canceled check is not sufficient evidence you gave.

    If the donation amount is over $250, this is correct. However, donations under $250 can be supported by checks only. NOTE that the amount is per individual donation, not per year.
     
  6. Pipedude

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    A key purpose for the envelope system is to remind the giver. Some people miss church one Sunday and consider it a free week and never make up the money they failed to give that week. The envelope system plugs a lot of leaks.
     
  7. El_Guero

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    I have gotten them. But, I really do not use them. I do not consider the deduction from my income tax to be a big priority.




     
  8. Brother Randall

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    Also, the envelopes are numbered. So, it makes accounting easier for the church to credit your "account" of giving. Probably more of an issue in a large church to quickly identify the giver (e.g. maybe their are 12 Smith families in the congregation). Precise record keeping is important since churches send out yearly summaries of giving for tax purposes.
     
  9. Rufus_1611

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    Where would one find instruction for a new testament church engaging in this activity?
     
  10. rbell

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    now if that question was equally applied...our church services, buildings, staffs, and pretty much everything else would be unrecognizable to us.

    Rufus' question, IMO, does raise one very important issue: How far does one take Jesus' idea of not letting "the left hand know what the right hand is doing?"

    As long as charitable giving is tax-deductible, the envelope system is going to be depended on by churches.

    I know that there's one facet of the envelope system that is invaluable to me...when a student is paying (especially cash) for an event, by putting it in an envelope, it offers another level of accountability & protection for me, the money-collector for some events.
     
  11. Gib

    Gib
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    I'm wondering more about using envelopes for tithing. Is it anyone's business how or how much you tithe. Should our finances be an open book to the counters in the church.

    I'm not wondering about designated giving, youth trips, mission offerings, ect, but your tithe.
     
  12. whatever

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    The record keepers at our church ask that we use the envelopes to aid them in their job of recordkeeping, which is one of their means of accountability. I consider their accountability to be a big priority, so I do as they ask and use the envelopes they provide.
     
  13. Salty

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    One way to do that is to have different people counting different weeks,
    By having different counters, each week, it would be harder for an individual to know who is giving totally. For example, lets say you have a total of 3 people count the offering each week. You have a total of seven counters; under this plan than a person would count only about five times per quarter. (just make sure he doesnt request the first Sunday of each month :laugh: )

    For example I give (I dont tithe- thats OT and another thread) once a month, since I do my all finances on a monthly basis.
     
  14. menageriekeeper

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    :laugh: This is the funniest thing that I have heard all day.

    Where does one get the idea that folk should pay their tithes on a weekly basis? Monthly not good enough? Biweekly either?

    Since we get paid only once a month are we supposed to divide our tithes into weekly payments and hold onto them until the designated Sunday? :laugh:

    Onto the OP: Our church provides envelopes for those who wish to give(not pay, you can't pay God), in cash and have the church keep a record of the gifts for tax purposes. Those who pay with a check and do not use the envelopes still receive a statement at the end of the year with the total given for the year.

    Personally, if I give with a check I do not use the envelopes and if I give cash I may or may not use an envelope depending on my mood that day, but I can't remember the last time I actually wrote my name on one. I usually use them when I have several bills to give instead of a single larger bill. I'd hate for anyone to get the idea I was tossing a wad of cash into the plate when it was really only several one dollar bills! :laugh:
     
  15. blackbird

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    Gib Gib Gib GibbyGibbyGibbyGibby

    Once in a pastorate I had in central Florida-----there was a lady there who approached the Financial Sec with the comment

    "I need a copy of all my contributions for tax purposes!"

    The finance guy says

    "We don't have any record of your contributions----you'll have to use your cancelled checks---round them all up and I'll work it out for ya!"

    She said---"I don't tithe with checks---I tithe with cash!"

    Finance man---"Then we'll just use your envelopes for records!"

    She said---"I don't put my money in church envelopes!"

    "Finance man---"Then how am I suppose to know what to write down on the contribution form??

    By IRS law---any amount over $250 smackers given as a lump sum at one time---requires a special form from the church stateing that the giver did not receive anything of value for the contribution----somethin' like that!!
     
  16. Pipedude

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    There's no "should" in the post. We're dealing with the indicative here, and it doesn't need a list of qualifications to be clear. I myself don't give every week and I do trust the envelopes to help me keep track of what weeks I skipped.

    Quite obviously, if a person gave monthly, the weekly envelope system wouldn't do much to help him keep track. Of course, with intervals like that, keeping track shouldn't take any effort anyway.

    I'll guarantee ya, Pilgrim, that envelope system plugs a lot of leaks.
     
  17. saturneptune

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    posted in error
     
    #17 saturneptune, Jan 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2007
  18. Andy T.

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    I think you should just give and not worry about what other people think or know. If you don't care about the tax deduction, then just give cash anonymously, if you are that concerned about people knowing. If you want the tax deduction, then someone will have to know about it.

    And BTW, your finances are not an 'open book' to the counters, only your giving. A counter has no way of knowing how much you make just by the dollar amount of your giving.

    And this is just a vent (not directed at you, Gib), but why are our finances such a touchy issue, anyway? If I know what someone does for a living and where they live, I already have a general awareness of what that person makes. If someone tells me they are a doctor, and I know what field they are in and how many years of experience they have, then I have a general knowledge of how much that person makes. The same with just about any other occupation - teacher, lawyer, accountant, UPS driver, contractor, etc. Granted, there are some occupations that are more nebulous - like a commissioned salesman. So why is our personal financial situation so top secret, when most people already know approx. how much we make anyways?
     
    #18 Andy T., Jan 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2007
  19. mcdirector

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    We stick our check in our envelope when we give (about once a month -- sometimes it is more often - like if one of us gets a bonus). We do not write anything on the envelope. We do write our envelope number on our check. I've not ever thought about it. Our church is huge. I assumed it is helpful to someone, but I've never thought about it enough to ask.
     
  20. Alcott

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    It wasn't too long ago that our pastor included something in a speech about him 'not knowing what anyone gives' (a remark that always makes me suspicious), that only the treasurer and assistants staff who record and deposit the money have such access. But then he did add that if someone is nominated for some position (especially deacon, but also teacher, committee, et al) that then their record of giving 'may be checked out' by those who must approve such nominations, which would include him for many of them. I don't hold his original statement to be a falsehood, since he did 'amend' it, per se. But this shows that sometimes proof is required of how much one gives for certain positions, and the evelope and crediting system are not just for tax deduction purposes. And if your have convictions, or a preference, to give anonymously, that may keep you from doing something others (and perhaps yourself) want you to do.

    I remember once when I started going back to church and Bible study in my early 20's that a guy in our small class put a lot of cash in our 'record box' with no envelope. In the church newsletter later that week, there was a notice that someome had placed $107 in the College/Career box and the secretary wanted to get the name of the contributor(s). When that guy next came to class (his school and work schedule kept him away most of the time) he was reminded of that, and he said he 'wasn't concerned' about getting a tax deduction for his church contributions. So I asked him why he doesn't claim any such deduction he is due and then give the tax savings to the church also; though I really doubted if that could make any positive difference (from the standard deduction), as his income must have been barely enough to live on in a cheap apartment. He just looked at me and didn't answer. So, why don't those of you who now give without being credited prefer to do that-- if it would make any such difference?
     
    #20 Alcott, Jan 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2007

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