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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Palatka51, Oct 28, 2007.
Why are Baptist Pastors so enamored with this topic?
I was listening to the tv broadcast of a local large well known Baptist Church this morning and the guest preachers subject was money and the way God gets it is by the tithe. I'm sorry if I've missed something here but last I checked we are not maintaining a temple or an instituted priesthood.
No, but we do have to maintain the church building, the pastor, the ministries of the church and support for missions. Tithing, not as a doctrine but as a functional principle, has met these needs for many years. In the last few years I have began to hear and see a greater resistance to tithing. Most of those who are resisting still want the chruch roof to be water tight, the heat/airconditioning working, and if the pastor is not available when he is needed they start screaming for his removal.
Great post! :thumbs:
Am I to surmise the OP is against tithing?
So if the Bible (God's Word) does not teach tithing is required for the church age it is okay with you for it to be taught because the end (the cost of the ministry) justifies this?
If we approach our Bible doctrines this way then what reason do we have to defend any position on anything so long as the end justifies the means?
People aren't resisting tithing but false teaching. If it isn't required then don't teach it.
The next question is: "How are the ministries going to be paid for"?
1. Base the church budget on what people give based on correct bible doctrine being taught, particularly giving.
2. What you receive is what God has provided.
3. Do some research, talk with those teachers or read those teachers who have taught that the church age believer is not required to tithe and discover what principles ARE taught about giving (there are some, very clear ones) and seek out their mature direction in dealing with a ministry that is not as far advanced financially as you think it should be (you, meaning anyone considering this and not YOU personally unless you choose to apply my comment personally but it is not meant personally).
The fact is all teaching is to be derived from correct doctrine. Simply because we want something done does not mean we circumvent right teaching in order to accomplish a desired end.
Now if you as a Pastor believe in tithing, well that would explain why tithing IS such a big deal.
I have heard Malachi 3:10 preached incorrectly a number of times ---- putting people "in bondage" --- not to obey the text but in bondage to the speaker and his feeble attempt to exegete Malachi.
We do what the Scripture says ---- because we love the God of the Scripture!! ---- if you love Me you will will keep My commands---isn't that straight from the lips of Jesus!!!!??
Either this is ambiguous, or the message I get is: "Tithe because you obey God, not because you obey ME" in which case it really comes out the same.
For those who preach tithing, do you truly tithe properly? Does your congregation tithe properly?
Preachers stand behind the pulpit and preach tithing, and only tithing on one thing... money. But if one studies the Word carefully and prayerfully, one will find tithes was not money, it was corn, wheat, oil, and that which was of the increase of the congregation.
If we are going to preach tithing, we should be preaching bringing food in 'so there will be meat in my house'.
What about money? That is where offering comes in.
"Tithes" and "Offerings"
drfuss: The ministries of the church should be maintained by free will offerings. We give more that 10% to the Lord's work each year, but we do not believe in tithing. Tithing requirements were for the Jews to support their place of worship, etc. Money was not allowed to be given as tithe, Duet. 14.
Giving more that 10% is a good guide, but it should not be considered the required tithe.
This one isn't.
I preach on giving about once a year. I believe that Believers ought to give, and the tithe - 10% - is a good place to start.
Now some say that the tithe is Old Testament only, and we're New Testament believers. Most of the arguments along this line I've heard are from those who don't want to give anything at all. How sad. God has given them everything, and they are too stingy to gove anything back? How sad indeed.
I give what I have to give. I consider it an offering, not a tithe.
As I said, why the emphasis on money when preaching tithing? Why not tell the farmer that goes to your church that that he or she are to give 10% of your crops to the church? Why not 10% of eggs from the henhouse? 10% of wool shorn form sheep?...
Woodworkers, why not tithe of the work of your hands? Donating projects to the church?
Brickmasons? Carpenters? other careers?
You get the picture. Why is the NT church only hung up on the money aspect of tithing?
If one is going to preach the Word of God concerning tithing, one must preach the full counsel of God concerning tithing. Tithing is not just about money.
So I suppose if ones church has a storage facility for farm products and livestock then I suppose it would be a good thing. How does your church store all these products? You must have a pretty big freezer and refrigerator and grain storage facilities!!! - Did you have any problems getting your food handling and health permits?
- How much of what you have do you consider yours versus God's?
- I don't recall a prohibition against money you could give gold and silver if it makes you feel good.
- If you give grudgingly than don't bother.
Actually when I raised beef I did give a portion to pastors not as a tithe but just because. How about you? standing firm? you keep asking bold questions but you never say what you do as a answer to your own questions.
If God gives us everything and we owe some of it back, why doesn't he just do a 'payroll deduction'? Or are some of you claiming the he does, in fact, do that; and if we are unwilling to kickback, he makes our cars break down, our heating or A/C go on the blink, so we lose it anyway, or he won't let us get better jobs or better pay?
You must have not read the first part of my post. I said, "I give what I have to give"
I do not preach tithing. I do not believe it is a New Testament doctrine. For the preachers who harp constantly on tithing and stress money, they need to look at what the Old Testament declares the tithing to be... tithing of increase of crops; corn, wheat, oil, etc.
If I start preaching tithing, I will have to preach what God's Word declares the tithing to consist of and then I am putting people back under the law.
I preach people are to give of a cheerful heart, not grudgingly as the New Testament declares the giving to be. If they want to give 10%, then fine. if they want to give above 10%, then fine. If they only have 2 or 3% to give, and they give it with joy, then God does not deny them that.
Act 2:45 And they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone had need.
Act 2:46 And continuing with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they shared food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
Act 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
This is not a tithe but they did make sure anyone who had a need was taking care of, I also recall Paul collecting money from one church to help another church. Tithing may or may not be doctrine but try running a church or mission with out it. The bible also teaches a workman is worthy of his hire,(Matt.10:10) if you think pastors dont work follow one around for a week.
I guess I should give 10% of the articles I write. Would it be okay if I just give "the", "and", etc? That should amount to at least 10%.
lol. If the articles you write are churchworthy articles, your pastor would probably appreciate it; if not, he may prepare a sermon just for you.