To KJBO's and old style music folk

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Gina B, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    I used to be KJB only. Now I'm not, although for personal reading I tend to turn to it simply because I love the poetic sound and lilt of old English.

    However, when I want to study, I tend to use multiple versions. The Darby is my personal favorite, but it's not in print, which makes me sad. However, it's fun to use my hubby's parallel Bible which has four versions.

    I'm distressed at the discord among Christians over Bible versions. I can understand the disdain for paraphrased versions that are used in place of translated ones.

    However, I grow weary of brothers and sisters treating me and others like second-class believers or even questioning my faith, the implications that we're being sinful and doing wrong by using versions that use the same words we use today rather than a version of English that is outdated and where words in it hold different meanings from the same words today.

    The same thing happens with music. Singing new songs gets me and others accused of listening to evil music and being worldly. Why makes tunes from 50 years ago anymore righteous than tunes from 5 years ago?

    I'm just tired of coming across people that are really decent and seem like wonderful brothers and sisters in Christ, only to suddenly feel punched in the face when they come on here and suddenly make a post that bashes me based on their personal ideals of what makes one Bible right and one Bible wrong or claim that their music and praise in song to God makes God happy but some of my music and praise in song makes God angry.

    Why do this? Why treat other Christians like this? It hurts. Yes, even though it's over the internet, it hurts because I come here for fellowship and believe it or not, I do care about some of the posters, do pray for people here and I've been here a long time. So when you get familiar with some people for ten years, it really is painful to suddenly come across them mocking your life even if they're not speaking directly to you. Christians are family no matter where they are.

    I can understand it coming from new believers, from those who haven't studied. I used to do the same and have deep regret for the way I treated people in the past over these issues. I spent far too much time clinging to my position and finding ways to defend it instead of using that time to find the truth of the matter. I well remember panicking when someone came close to proving me wrong and going all out to "win" the argument, only looking at my side and not even bothering to try to see the other side. Time and God helped me with that.

    Yet those aren't the only ones doing this. I've been blind-sided more than a couple times by people I've posted along-side for years on here that have been believers for 2, 3, 4 times longer than myself and that I've respected and looked up to.

    I just needed to vent that. It would be nice to get some feedback on WHY. Not another thread that's a long argument and fighting and bickering. Don't talk in general. Please address ME. Use my name and tell me why using these other translations and listening to new praise music and lyrics makes me either a poor Christian or not one at all.
     
  2. dcorbett

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    Gina, I love you as my sister in Christ....I hope you know that by now!


    that said, I would like to say that I am KJVO because I love that Bible, it is the ONLY BIble I have ever owned, and I was raised in a Southern Baptist home that never had any other Bible but the King James in it.
    I don't need another version, and I am like you, I don't understand why some people rail against the only Bible I have ever read or want to read...I have a Pastor who has studied Greek in depth, and he also is KJVO...and I respect him and agree with him.

    I also love traditional hymns, but I am ok with contemporary music just as long as it's not that repetitive hypnotic praise music that repeats phrases over and over, I am unable, try as I may, to find redeeming value in such songs, it is not good music to me. And that is MY OPINION....right?

    I am not able to quote exact scripture for some preferences and opinions that took a lifetime to develop and establish, and I really get annoyed when people expect an exact scripture quote and don't respect my preferences that I learned from childhood 50+ years ago.

    Nuff said....
     
  3. Salty

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    How do you know? Have you ever actually tried using another version for a bit?

    That said - I normally preach out of the KJV, beacuse, like you, I grew up with it. But I do use other versions.


    Actually your pastor is NOT KJO, as you said he also uses the Greek...
     
  4. DiamondLady

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    Gina, like you it bothers me when people come to bash and degrade others for their choices. I would not call myself King James ONLY, but it's my preference and first choice. It's what I grew up with, what I'm comfortable with, and it's the version I memorized scripture from throughout my childhood, youth, and into my adult life. I do, occasionally look something up in a modern version, during study for comparison, but I like the King James. Just as it bothers you when people deride your choice for modern versions, it bothers me when others deride my choice of the King James. I don't think it's the only version under which people can be saved, or that you're being brainwashed if you read a modern version, and I certainly don't think God can't, and won't, use other versions to touch the hearts and lives of people.

    As for the music....I love ALL (ok...most!) kinds of music. I don't like rap music and there's some operas that really get under my skin, but I'm a musician and my musical tastes are very eclectic. BUT, I am not a fan of what is commonly known as 7-11 "praise choruses" where you stand and sing the same words over and over and over again while people get caught up in the beat of the drums and the thrumming of the guitars and begin swaying and waving their hands. Let me finish before you get upset.....I feel this way because they're into the MUSIC itself, not the message of the song. It's like going to a Blue Oyster Cult concert (yes, I've been and yes, it shows my age but it's a good example) and you can't understand a single word they're singing because the drums and guitars are so loud, but everyone is screaming and jumping around because it's a ...concert!!!
    Now I know that's an extreme example but the point is that it's the music that drives the emotions in both cases. On the other hand I truly enjoy listening to my old Integrity cassettes (there I go showing my age again) and CD's at home and in my car. They can be energizing and exciting (especially when I'm doing the dreaded housework LOL)...but again, that music gets one going.

    I love the old hymns, I love Southern Gospel Music, I love listening to pianists like Dino, I love orchestra music, and love listening to Diane Bish play the organ. I equally love the Gaither Vocal Band, Casting Crowns, Mercy Me and many other groups throughout the years. But I believe music has a place and has different uses. I enjoy the song Heaven's Just a Sin Away but I wouldn't sing it or play it in church.

    My time has gotten away from me and my little one will be here in just a minute so I must stop, but I hope I've shared my thoughts and not offended.
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    No one has the right to 'rail against' your choice. If that happens here please use the report button and it WILL be dealt with.

    And you are correct - if you are happy with your choice of translation that is all you do, indeed, need. Praise God you have chosen one of the best English translations available.
     
  6. preacher4truth

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    I used to use the KJ version and recently switched to the NASB. I really enjoy this version.

    As far as music, I like both some old hymns and most newer praise songs.

    Most people don't like newer praise saying it repeats. Well guess what, so do the hymns...in choruses...and then "sing that chorus again!" [/I]"OH NO!!!, now we're like the heathen making vain repetitions, Matthew 6:7!" I've heard this and can't believe it. When is singing to God and praising Him "vain?" I don't think this is even the point of Matthew 6.

    There is so much division in churches, and either satan is smart enough or we aren't smart enough to avoid trivial things and personal preferences that actually cause church schisms and splits.

    One church we were at is "again' anything other than old and kjv." Last time I preached there several made professions of faith. Yet they wouldn't get off their stool of do nothing to even go visit one after being saved, not once. But they'll preach against music and versions, and they haven't had one new person added there in YEARS. I went by to visit and they are right where they have always been. It is really sad. To me this is cultic.

    Also, get this, they support one missionary, and the preacher got up to talk about this missionary, and didn't know his name!!!! The clincher? The missionary was there in the service! Same sad story. "What's your name brother, I forgot?" Unbelievable. We wanted to cry when we left but we were too angry about it. But they want to fight over versions and music styles. OK.

    - Peace
     
  7. HankD

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    I agree Gina, I have been here almost as long as you have and I also was more agressive with my debating style when I first came on board than now.

    When I received the insults and mockery from Christian brethren I was convicted of my own sin.

    Suppose we are in a spiritual unhealthy state, is insult, innuendo and mockery Christian principles of therapy and restoration?

    Suppose a family member (Mom, Dad, Children) become sick. Do we mock and insult them?

    Admonition is one thing and we should accept it graciously and even seek it, but mockery, insult and a condescending spirit which leads to strife and division is another.

    2 Timothy 2
    24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
    25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
    26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

    Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
    2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
    3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.​


    HankD
     
    #7 HankD, Jul 5, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2011
  8. menageriekeeper

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    There are tirades on both sides.

    We Christians as a whole have lost our love for one another. Period, end of story. We only have "love" for those who look like us, think like us and believe like us.

    We have also lost our perception of what a "fault" is (from the scripture Hank posted) and have turned that definition into something that resembles "a fault is anything anyone believes that I don't". (music styles and scripture tranlations fall into this catagory)

    And we are all lazy and set in our ways. It's difficult to let go of or even question those things we were "raised" with. We don't want to think that the saints who raised us might have been wrong. That seems disloyal. But we've lost sight of the One we are to be loyal too. It's not our parents or preachers, it is the Lord who revealed Himself through His Word. And we need to examine our beliefs and our preferences in the light of that Word. (using whichever translations floats your boat!)

    In some cases preferences don't even matter. We do have liberty in Christ to prefer a certain music style and join with others who like the same. But we often don't want to give others that same liberty. After all, it was good enough for me for 50 years, why shouldn't it be good enough you? And we feel rejected when its not. It's a false rejection btw. I prefer contemporary music, but I can still enjoy a service of hymns. Honestly, the point of worship is not the music style or the version of scripture used, the point is Christ and His sacrifice! We gotta get past this "it can only be my way" mentality because it is a tool Satan is weilding quite well to divide even those of us who call ourselves Baptists.

    Of course, we were warned this would happen:

    Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
    Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

    If we can't expect peace in our own homes, then why should we expect it in our churches?
     
  9. Amy.G

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    You have hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head. We have been having a problem at our church recently with some people who think they have the right to criticize their brothers and sisters. It is very divisive, un-Christlike, and must be stopped for the church to survive. If people do not wake up and repent for such behavior, God will remove His candlestick and the church will die. It is being addressed and hopefully the troublemakers will either repent or leave.
     
  10. Salty

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    I like to differentiate between KJVO and KJVP. Only vs Preferred. I am KJP, and I would say you are also. I also would think that it is only a fringe minority that make a big issue out of KJVO - but I am sure you have heard the ole saying, the squeaky wheel gets the most oil. For the most part, I just ignore it.

    And that is part of the problem. Some actually believe you cannot be saved outside the KJV! :tear:. And to them it is actually a firmly held doctrine - a false doctrine I must add. The importance of KJVO is right up there with the same importance as immersion, no female pastors, no speaking in tongues, ect.

    DL, I agree with you 100% including the reason you feel that way.

    I have often said the time Baptist lie the most is when they are singing a song in church.:tear:
     
  11. TomVols

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    I'll third the "proverbial nail/head" strikes. We sit behind our keyboards or on our pews and because we can type or we give a few bucks here and there, we think we have the right to do or say pretty much whatever we want. We're eaten up with self in this country. It's all about us. Well....ME. "Us" is plural and means I have to give a rip about someone else, and that's just unacceptable if I have to sacrifice one whit. I'll do what I please, when I please, and God just understands. After all, I'm the greatest "me" He's ever seen. I'm the ONE He'd have died for if there'd only been one. Forget God's passion for His glory; forget the good of the Kingdom. It's my world. I like people who think like me, look like me, talk like me, and believe like me, but at the end of the day, I'm mostly concerned with this picture on the wall that's really a mirror. I love me. I gratify me. I glorify me. And you need to listen to me because I.....well, I'm me, and that's all the reason you need.

    Anyway, I fear this thread may degenerate into another debate, Gina. You asked for people to direct it at you. I fear some will take you up on it because they believe that they should save your soul by throwing a KJV at you or a NIV at you or whatever their version of choice is. If we would only stand for truth the way we stand for "me," the Kingdom would be much better off.

    Sermon over. With every head bowed, and every eye closed........:tongue3:
     
  12. Phillip

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    Well, Toms an administrator and I'm a lowly moderator, but lucky enough to be a moderator of this particular thread where we have to deal with these fusses (plus the political thread which is actually not quite as bad) and C4K has to do most of the work because I spend so many hours working and cannot stay online for periods long enough to really help. :BangHead:

    Seriously, I love the thread and C4K I know is tired of the ole KJVO argument. But, I have something on my heart I feel I need to say.

    I do see a movement in many of our churches that I believe is causing disruption and discontent. I visit my daughter's church since I left a church where I had great doubts that the pastor is even a Christian (you know them by their fruits) and he was so far from even caring about his people it was sad and the church just stagnates with new people replacing the ones he runs off once they figure him out or the rest are too uneducated to see the truth and blindly follow a false prophet. (Please understand this is my opinion, but it is based on what I saw and things I was asked to do by this preacher to hide some of his sins.)

    I only brought that up to show you that I believe Satan is working very hard to harm the churches that get close to the true beliefs of the Bible and attack them in a way that they split, people laugh at them because of literal ignorance of things they preach that are not even Biblical, or if they do start growing Satan makes an underhanded attack that many people do not see it and buy whatever or whoever is pushing things that are not really Biblical, but they "appear" to be the way they are taught.

    As an example, my daughter and her family go to a Fundamental Baptist Church who's pastor is a true man of the Lord and works himself almost to death to push missions and local ministries (bus, door-to-door-knocking, etc.) It is sad, however, but I will not be able to join his church because a requirement is that he calls Bibles I use weekly as books coming straight from "hell" or "Satan". He has bought into the level of KJVO of Riplinger and those others that know nothing about translation. This is going to keep me from joining the church because if I go to visit my grandkids I have to carry a KJV and my daughter actually has bought into it even though I raised her differently and I can no longer use anything but a KJV when talking about Bibles to my grandchildren.

    This has literally become "doctrine" in the church and he actually asked a missionary from another country (I won't say which, but they only have one Bible in their language right now): "Is your Bible in their language a King James Bible?" The missionary said that it is a translation of Greek and Hebrew and you could tell he was having a hard time not causing a problem with his answer. The pastor went on to ask why someone couldn't just translate the KJV into their language.

    The missionary said that it would be too difficult and he would leave Bible translation to the experts.

    The pastor went on to say that he would probably be arrested because he would demand that they use a KJV (we're talking about a very large country if you haven't guessed it yet.)

    This was so sad because this pastor was actually making a statement that if he were to preach in that country he would preach out of the KJV and make the translators translate that.

    The missionary tried to explain that to make a KJV Bible in this language it would require going back and obtaining the old English Bibles from which the King James was derived and the few Greek and Hebrew documents used to upgrade these older English Bibles to make it a KJV in their language. The missionary admitted that the language of this country is so difficult he can barely read the local Bible anyway and has to rely on God to make sure the message is correct since he has to use their Bible and rely on translators for most of his soul winning.

    This pastor is a very strong Christian and I have NO DOUBT he will be in heaven when he dies, but because of this one issue it causes problems if you cannot accept a HARD LINE KJVO. He preaches a soul-winning sermon and teaches that Christians should live a life in their public lives that is different from the world. In other words, they don't curse, join in with the worldly things and let people see a difference in their lives caused by Jesus living in their lives. Then he has to break it before the sermon is over by making a comment about the "Non-Inspired Version" or any other Bible from Satan because he knows he has the real Bible because it is 200 years old. He passed out the original duplicates of King James during its birthday this year to all the members and I noticed the Apocrypha was mentioned in the front, but not included. Even my daughter didn't want to hear that the imitation I was holding was not just spelling changes and had actual sentences fixed and that the Apocrypha was included in the original King James.

    Folks, I'm not arguing "non-King James" here, I'm pointing out that this church is getting very close to a lot of soul winning and ministry and the Devil appears to be making an attack that the pastor does not even realize himself even with all his praying and studying. As I said, it is so strong, that I don't even bring this up to my daughter and her family because I do not want them discouraged and thinking their church is lying to them. We need to be praying for these issues that the churches start following the "Bible" and not man-made theology that makes people with enough knowledge whether or not it is common horse-sense or education use this to reject them and actually laugh at them.

    My six year old grandson has actually started asking me if I'm reading a King James Bible if he sees me reading my Bible.

    My point is, this pastor and this church "means well" and THEY LOVE THE LORD, but Satan is using a trick on them that is harming their ministry and that of the members who go out door knocking every weekend. It is to the point that if they do go to someone's house who claims to be saved but uses a different Bible translation, that becomes the point of discussion and this is SAD.

    We need to be praying that people's eyes will not be blinded as they Bible says they will be and that these well meaning people worry about a person's soul just as much as they worry about which specific Bible they are reading.

    The pastor actually spent fifteen minutes of this missionary's time discussing slipping in KJV Bibles and even was asking him if the government of that country had something to do without letting them use KJV Bibles in their own language.

    One problem I see that causes a lot of this is skipping around and reading one verse here, one verse here and another verse here to make a point and when you read the entire chapter in context you realize they are changing the meaning to fit their beliefs by pulling out one verse and using it as a demand and it is not even covering the same issue.

    Like I said, let us pray for this issue and one of the devil's secret tricks with the KJVO is to say that a person who uses a Modern Version "hates" the KJV. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only thing I know is the reality that my six year old cannot understand reading out of the KJV and absolutely ignores it when preached because it goes right over his little head. When I was his age I found a Living Bible Paraphrase and ate it up and it did not mess up my theology---no matter how many mistakes are in it. I could read the Bible stories and understand them for the first time in my life. I carried and even read a KJV, but little did I know I was NOT absorbing the material even in Junior High, but I did pick up the wonderful stories found in the Living Bible and my preacher pointing out the errors to me, but advised me to keep reading it if I would continue to read at that age when most kids would not read.

    My grandson quoted John 3:16 to me and I started asking him what each line meant. He could NOT tell me what "shall not parish" meant, or other words. He had memorized this KJV verse, but he had no idea what he was saying. Sad. :tear:

    Notice the devil hits many churches getting close to working for Jesus, but leaves the "entertainment centers" alone where you go once a week and get your dose of Christianity by listening to the rock band concert and the pastor telling you if you will give him enough money you will receive more back. The church I was talking about above is right in every way, except the KJVO issue that is brought up every worship service at least once and I don't like hearing that I am going home and read a Bible written by Satan.

    But, I can guarantee you many of those people will be there in heaven because they are working for God and why should Satan attack a church concert hall that doesn't even give to missions. This movement that I have seen is primarily occuring in churches that mean well and are being hood-winked by a very smart, but evil angel who rebelled against his Maker. We MUST pray for these attacks on the churches and their ministries.

    This is the reason I will discuss KJVO'ism with my fellow Christians, but I try to be very careful so I don't discourage them from their zeal for getting the name of Jesus to the entire town.
     
  13. Mexdeaf

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    Phillip- great post. KJVO has been a blow to missionaries. I have experienced it and I know some men that post here who have also. It is abject foolishness to place such a premium upon a Bible version at the expense of souls dying and going to Hell.

    My friends, love your KJV, use it, read it, memorize it and preach from it, but please don't waste time criticizing others who prefer and use other good BV's- or who use so-called "bad" BV's because there is NOTHING ELSE TO USE in their country. Don't destroy their faith in God's Word.
     
  14. Gina B

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    dcorbett, thank you for that post. It is deeply appreciated. :flower:

    C4K, I'm usually hesitant to report such, but will in the future for the sake of others. I prefer honesty to simply forcing people to behave. Part of that stems from me having been such an idiot myself before, attacking others viciously and saying horrid things about God's word and what should be done with what I used to refer to as false bibles because they weren't KJV. Whenever anyone edited my posts, it only fed into my perception of myself as a martyr for my beliefs and enforced my belief that I must hold onto it at all costs.

    Tom, I'm grateful for your concern. I understand they may try to "save" me. That's okay with me. The reason I ask for it to be directed to me personally is that it is much easier to speak in general terms to a general audience. People tend to try to use more logic and be more civil when they find themselves speaking to just one person. It's easy to use "you" collectively and follow it up with rudeness, but when you use the term "you" and you're only speaking to one person, the speaker must face the reality that they are speaking to a human being.
     
  15. nodak

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    I'm not KJVO, and we use a blend of music styles.

    However, I do think things on this post are a bit turned around.

    Those that are KJVO and old hymns and gospel songs only are often bashed for "pushing their personal preferences" when in fact they may not be speaking from personal preference at all.

    Right or wrong, some folks have theological reasons behind being KJVO or NOT, old songs only or NOT.

    Seems no matter which side of any fence you are on, someone else will bash you for "pushing your personal preferences" while never considering that maybe, just perhaps, they might be "pushing their personal preferences."
     
  16. Amy.G

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    Great sermon! :thumbs:

    It sounded a lot like my pastor who preaches against what he calls the "I, me, my" philosophy this world is caught up in (even in the church). You would think certain people in my own church might listen to him, wouldn't you?

    It seems that we have forgotten that we are ALL sinners in need of a Savior and Paul said it best:


    Philippians 2:3
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
     
  17. dcorbett

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    Salty, your post is an example of what I mean...I just stated my preferences and choices, which are not open to argument, but you insist on arguing. I will pray for you.
     
  18. Jkdbuck76

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    At best: they are ignorant.
    At worst: deep down they are filled with hate.

    Just my $0.02.
     
  19. sag38

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    They really do think that they are right. Somehow they think they have a handle on which music is of God and which is not. One recently took the Bible out of context to try and prove his/her position and then had the never to suggest that I was supporting my rebellion because I did not agree. Talk about being closed minded. As for the Bible, again they are convinced that they are right. They certainly can't back their position with relevant facts nor with one scripture from the KJV. Most likely they have been duped by well meaning but ignorant preachers such as the one Phillip described.

    I have no problem with the KJV. If that's the Bible you prefer that's great. If I were your pastor and your church wanted me to use the KJV I would. But, there would be a problem the first time someone wanted me to promote it as being the only legitimate English version. That would be asking me to teach and preach a false doctrine. Not going to happen!
     
  20. abcgrad94

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    If your preferences and choices are not open to argument, then why is it that other people's ARE? I've seen this over and over with many of the IFBs here--it's okay to demean other people's preferences but not theirs. Why? That's what Gina is asking.

    And why do you need to pray for Salty? Because he disagrees with you? Do you not see how condescending that sounds? Maybe you don't mean for it to, but it really does.
     
    #20 abcgrad94, Jul 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2011

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