To whom is He referring?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by robycop3, Mar 17, 2005.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3
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    Luke 21:8, KJV
    And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

    For you Greek experts: Is Jesus here saying that those who will come will say THEY are Christ, or will they say JESUS is Christ, but "deny the power thereof"? I've seen both views expressed in various translations.
     
  2. icthus

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    It is abundantly clear from the tenor of the passage in context, that Jesus is here warning about "pseudo-christos", that is, those who claim that they are the ture Christ! The fact that Jesus says that they "will come in My Name", shows that they are NOT saying that Jesus IS Christ!. Matthews account seems clearer:

    "For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray" (24:5)

    This should answer your question.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    But the current danger seems to be those
    saying "I am AS Christ". They don't seem
    to directly claim to be Christ but
    do claim to be "the anointed of God"
    (this is a pun: 'Christ' is Greek
    for "the anointed of God".
    'Messiah' is Hebrew for "the anointed of God".)
     
  4. El_Guero

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    icthus

    I agree, and I would have always said that He was referring to the Anti-christs that would follow.

    However, Ed has shed light upon it that will require some extensive study and use of commentaries.

    God Bless
     
  5. icthus

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    The Greek , "antichristos" has the meaning of someone who is "against Christ", and also "instead of Christ"

    This should cover both classes, firstly those who are hostile to Jesus Christ, and, secondly, those who claim to be Jesus Chirst, either directly, or indirectly. The fact remains, that they do not acknowledge that Jesus alone is "The Christ", and are putting themselves forward by their claim to be, either as Christ, or Christ Himself!
     
  6. mcgyver

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    I agree with icthus.....

    A good picture would be David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, another good example would be the Word of Faith movement. One leading proponent of the WOF went to the extent of publicly stating that "we are all little messiahs".

    Many alas, are being deceived....... :(
     
  7. robycop3

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    I see there are both kinds of deceivers out there. Having seen various tralslations read both ways, I wondered which was right. Herbert Armstrong, by whom I was deceived for awhile, taught that those who come will point to the one and only Christ, but will really be false teachers. Not knowing that much about Greek, I was thinking there was some nuance in the wording that would indicate what Jesus meant. Thanx for everyone's help so far.

    The reason I placed this thread in the versions forum is because the question is based upon the differing translations of the verses involved. If any moderator feels it belongs elsewhere, I understand.
     
  8. Spoudazo

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    Reads thread. . .thinks of the Pope, the "Vicar" of Chirst :eek:
     
  9. mioque

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    Spoudazo
    Untill somewhere in the middle ages when a pope arranged for the title to become a personal privilege, all bishops used the title of vicar of Christ. Making the link between Luke 21:8 (it talks about many after all) and the papacy even more disturbing.
    On the other hand vicarius means steward/placeholder.
    claiming to be the steward of Christ is not quite the same as claiming to be Christ.
     
  10. icthus

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    Mioque, I don't know the source of your information, but the term "Vicar" does have the meaning of "a substitute for somebody else". Where the title "Vicar of Christ", which the Pope assumes for himself, literally means that he alone is "Christ's Subsitute" here on earth! This most definitely makes the Pope "antichristos", as being both "anti-Christ", and "instead of Christ"!
     
  11. Spoudazo

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    I still like what the editors of the Geneva Bible put about the pope, something like, "Which is the pope, the anichrist" :eek: Sure, that may be a little historica premill, but it's still good! [​IMG]
     
  12. mioque

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    icthus
    I'm a churchhistorian.
    The meaning of the title of vicar includes the assumption that the substitute is lower in rank than the person he is replacing. A steward is no king.
    It's not that the title isn't troubling, it's just that it is somewhat less troubling than some around would like to think.
     

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