Tony Campolo calls for Revolution in Baptist Churches.

No I can't right now. I agree with you both as far as needing docs. If this thread is open tomorrow I will have some by then.

 

Is he totally wrong on everything he says or can there be some truth in striving to "feel what Jesus felt"???

 

Awesome!

I look forward to seeing what you have.

Joseph Botwinick

 

He is totally wrong in saying that we need a more subjective view of Christ when we have an objective view in Scripture. As to feeling what Jesus Felt, I figure that comes about as the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and your need for salvation.

Joseph Botwinick

 

The above is part of what Campolo said. The words "spiritual formation" and "ancient techniques of prayer" are popping up in the emergent (postmodern) church. The "ancient" techniques of prayer refer to Contemplative Prayer which is supposedly ancient but is really more from the Middle Ages, supposedly. However, it is a modern movement started by 3 Trappist monks, Meninger, Thomas Keating, and Basil Pennington. I've read books on this by Keating and Pennington and referred to this in my article on meditation which I wrote about 9 or 10 yrs. ago. At that time, it was mostly being done by Catholics and some Episcopalians but had not got into the evangelical church. Now it has, thanks to non-catholics who are promoting it like Richard Foster.

CP (Contemplative Prayer) is neither contemplation nor prayer but rather Eastern techniques of meditation (with a mantra but they call it a sacred word or sacred symbol) that is to be repeated if you find yourself thinking. You are supposed to go into a no-thinking state. I heard Rev. Keating in person 2 weeks ago. He said we must do CP 20 minutes 2 times a day at least, and build up to more. Interestingly, TM is supposed to be done like that. He also brought up some Jungian concepts and talked about God is silence and silence is God. I actually got to speak to him personally afterwards and asked some questions.

In fact, the Roman Catholic Church does not endorse CP and there is an article against it on Catholic Answers, a Catholic Apologetics website.

We are going to see and hear more and more about CP (sometimes called Centering Prayer). I used to do Buddhist and Hindu meditation and I am quite familiar with these techniques. I have an article on CP, showing why it is not Biblical prayer, at
http://cana.userworld.com/cana_ContemplativePrayer1.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/5kwe4

 

Hey BenW...... are you still here???

 

quote:
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which is why we have to get into spiritual formation … tapping into the ancient techniques of prayer.”
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The above is part of what Campolo said. The words "spiritual formation" and "ancient techniques of prayer" are popping up in the emergent (postmodern) church. The "ancient" techniques of prayer refer to Contemplative Prayer which is supposedly ancient but is really more from the Middle Ages, supposedly. However, it is a modern movement started by 3 Trappist monks, Meninger, Thomas Keating, and Basil Pennington. I've read books on this by Keating and Pennington and referred to this in my article on meditation which I wrote about 9 or 10 yrs. ago. At that time, it was mostly being done by Catholics and some Episcopalians but had not got into the evangelical church. Now it has, thanks to non-catholics who are promoting it like Richard Foster.

CP (Contemplative Prayer) is neither contemplation nor prayer but rather Eastern techniques of meditation (with a mantra but they call it a sacred word or sacred symbol) that is to be repeated if you find yourself thinking. You are supposed to go into a no-thinking state. I heard Rev. Keating in person 2 weeks ago. He said we must do CP 20 minutes 2 times a day at least, and build up to more. Interestingly, TM is supposed to be done like that. He also brought up some Jungian concepts and talked about God is silence and silence is God. I actually got to speak to him personally afterwards and asked some questions.

In fact, the Roman Catholic Church does not endorse CP and there is an article against it on Catholic Answers, a Catholic Apologetics website.

We are going to see and hear more and more about CP (sometimes called Centering Prayer). I used to do Buddhist and Hindu meditation and I am quite familiar with these techniques. I have an article on CP, showing why it is not Biblical prayer, at
http://cana.userworld.com/cana_ContemplativePrayer1.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/5kwe4

 

I found this from back in 1996:

Tony & Peggy Campolo
Is the Homosexual My Neighbor?

This following is a transcript of a videotape of a talk at North Park College Chapel on February 29, 1996.

Tony Campolo:

I'm so pleased to be with you and so is Peggy. We were looking forward to this with great anticipation. First of all, I have to announce that we are two people who do not agree. We have very, very divergent views on this issue. I for instance believe that the Bible does not allow for same gender sexual marriage. I do not believe that same gender sexual intercourse is permissible if you read the Bible as I do.

Peggy believes in monogamous relationships. In short, she would hold to a belief that within the framework of evangelical Christianity, gay marriages are permissible and she will try to make her point.

- www.bridges-across.org/ba/campolo.htm

 

Shannon,

This seems to indicate the opposite of what you say he teaches. Did he perhaps change his mind later on? I am really interested to see what you have to offer on this issue tommorow.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I read this interesting quote on the Internet today that I think ties in with this thread, not specifically about Tony Compolo but about the use of entertainment in churches:

"We must have a new reformation. There must come a violent break with the irresponsible, amusement-mad paganized pseudo-religion which passes today for the faith of Christ and which is being spread all over the world by unspiritual men employing unscriptural methods to achieve their ends." - A.W. Tozer

 

(Mat 6:7) But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Red flag?

 

Possibly, but "vain repetitions" and "repetitions" are two different things. They key word is "vain." But I do get your point.

 

That's true and also "for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking", goes to something other than silent prayer.

A breath prayer is barely audible (if at all) to the person speaking it, and much less audible to people around that person, say, outside that personal zone space of two feet or less.

 

The blowing of the trumpet on the streets has already been discussed and now we are learning how to pray in secret, entering into a closet and closing the door behind you, but not in the fashion of the heathen.

The subject of Mat 6:7 is praying in a manner of repeating yourself in a proverbial stammering way, and the following verse instructs of what manner you should be talking to God.

How about the word “vain”
From ÂÜôôïò  (a proverbial stammerer) and G3056; to stutter,
that is, (by implication) to prate tediously:—use vain repetitions.

prate (chatter: to talk in a silly way at length)

tediously (boring because of being long, monotonous, or repetitive)

Vain-(excessively proud, especially of your appearance, failing to have or unlikely to have the intended or desired result)

Use vain repetitions – repeating your self thinking the way you appear will make you better heard “for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

God wants you to talk to Him, not chant and chatter thinking that makes you get through to Him better or puts you more in touch with the Holy Spirit by doing so. He already hears you and you don’t need to be in a self induced stammering trance for God to hear you. The next verse clarifies further:

(Mat 6:8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

So why would you need to be repeating yourself in an ancient form of prayer?

 

Thought this was interesting. This also talks about Campolo didn't like the SBC's views on homosexuality....

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=16205

 

I don't think he didn't like their views on homosexuality. I think he didn't like the way that Southern Baptists et al TREAT homosexuals. Homosexuals are not treated with love. They are abhored as lepers and avoided. If they are still in the sin of homosexuality, they are cast out and ignored. I see that as something other than a Christian ideal.

Reading some of Campolo via Google engine, I see some things that I disagree with Campolo on regarding the homosexual orientation, but there are others things that I understand his position on from a sociological point of view. The question is, can I balance what he says with a Christian stand for what Christ would have us be to all people. In other words am I my homosexual neighbor's brother and therefore should I love my neighbor as I love myself??? I don't think that homosexuals should be treated any different than alcoholics or the drug addicted or adulterers or anyone else who is in sin. Christians in general tend to condemn the person along with the sin and wash their hands of it. I don't think that is what our mission in life is to be. I also am pleased to see Campolo address these things. Thank you for introducing me to Campolo.

 

I don't think he didn't like their views on homosexuality. I think he didn't like the way that Southern Baptists et al TREAT homosexuals. Homosexuals are not treated with love. They are abhored as lepers and avoided. If they are still in the sin of homosexuality, they are cast out and ignored. I see that as something other than a Christian ideal.

Reading some of Campolo via Google engine, I see some things that I disagree with Campolo on regarding the homosexual orientation, but there are others things that I understand his position on from a sociological point of view. The question is, can I balance what he says with a Christian stand for what Christ would have us be to all people. In other words am I my homosexual neighbor's brother and therefore should I love my neighbor as I love myself??? I don't think that homosexuals should be treated any different than alcoholics or the drug addicted or adulterers or anyone else who is in sin. Christians in general tend to condemn the person along with the sin and wash their hands of it. I don't think that is what our mission in life is to be. I also am pleased to see Campolo address these things. Thank you for introducing me to Campolo. </font>[/QUOTE]Billy,

You say that Southern Baptists mistreat homosexuals. Would you please give me an example of this mistreatment from your point of view? As a life long Southern Baptist, I can tell you that I have had many friends who are homosexual who I have personally shown the love of God to while still openly rejecting their abominable lifestyle.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph I agree... I've never seen a homosexual mistreated in the SBC realm.

Just because we don't accept the behaviour doesn't mean we don't show love.

Love now-a-days seems to mean accept everything that the person does and ignore the sin.

 

Shannon,

Are you still around? Were you able to find anything?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Monday my man, Monday.

I have had to proclaim the unsearchable riches of the Lord Jesus Christ twice today. What a privilege!

Therefore, I haven't had time to diddle twiddle today. I shall hook a brother up shortly.