Trail of churches

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by John3v36, Jun 1, 2004.

  1. John3v36

    John3v36
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    You have a trail of churches by different names come up at different time all with similar beliefs from the time of Apostles to today. To them we give the general term Baptist. Baptists do not believe in Apostolic Succession. The Apostolic office ceased with the death of the Apostles. (You find nowhere in the Bible Apostolic Succession) It is to His churches that He promised a continual existence from the time He organized the first one during His earthly ministry until He comes again. He promised-- "I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18) Then, when He gave the great Commission, which tells what His churches are to do, He promised-- "I will be with you alway, even unto the end of the age." (Matt. 28:20) This Commission--this work--was not given to the Apostles as individuals, but to them and the others present in their church capacity. The Apostles and the others who heard Him give this Commission were soon dead--BUT His Church has lived on through the ages, making disciples (getting folks saved), baptizing them, and teaching the truth--the doctrines--He committed to the Jerusalem Church. These faithful churches have been blessed with His presence as they have gone the road of martadom


    "MARKS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH"
    1. Its Head and Founder--CHRIST. He is the law-giver; the Church is only the executive. (Matt. 16:18; Col. 1:18)
    2. Its only rule of faith and practice--THE BIBLE. (II Tim. 3:15-17)
    3. Its name--"CHURCH," "CHURCHES." (Matt. 16:18; Rev. 22:16)
    4. Its polity--CONGREGATIONAL--all members equal. (Matt. 20:24-28; Matt. 23:5-12)
    5. Its members--only saved people. (Eph. 2:21; I Peter 2:5)
    6. Its ordinances--BELIEVERS' BAPTISM, FOLLOWED BY THE LORD'S SUPPER. (Matt. 28:19-20)
    7. Its officers--PASTORS AND DEACONS. (I Tim. 3:1-16)
    8. Its work--getting folks saved, baptizing them (with a baptism that meets all the requirements of God's Word), teaching them ("to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"). (Matt. 28:16-20)
    9. Its financial plan--"Even so (OFFERINGS) hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel," (I Cor. 9:14)
    10. Its weapons of warfare--spiritual, not carnal. (II Cor. 10:4; Eph. 6:10-20)
    11. Its independence--separation of Church and State. (Matt. 22:21)


    [​IMG]
     
  2. John3v36

    John3v36
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  3. mioque

    mioque
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    What people who hold this view always neglect to mention is that almost all faithfull members of this trail of churches would get kicked out of any independant baptist church almost immediatly. There are BIG theological differences between say the Waldenses and fundamentalist baptists.
     
  4. Doubting Thomas

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    Yeah, the "Trail of (ahem...Baptist-ic) Churches" is a myth.
     
  5. Jude

    Jude
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    Are you saying that Baptist churches/theology go all the way back to the 1st century church? If so, I say "nonsense". Congregationalism, Memorialism, Sola-Scriptura, Sola-Fide, Adult-only baptism/believer's baptism, and "all equal" were not a part of the early church landscape. You need to read some Church history, and some of the early Church fathers. You'll see no Baptist church...for 1500+ years.
     
  6. music4Him

    music4Him
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    What about just plain old bible believeing churches? The good ole' God said it, Jesus did it, that settles it, churches? Or would that be called Charismatic? [​IMG]
    I have often wondered how come all the different churches/denominations got so many name tags (ie. RCC, Baptist, Pentacostal...ect)?

    Music4Him :D

    BTW, John3v36 just thought Id ask... what about #12 the "benifits" of the New Testament church? "Salavation" and when Jesus said "these and greater things shall you do"? [​IMG]
     
  7. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Music4Him,

    You said, ' and when Jesus said "these and greater things shall you do"?'

    Ray: This verse always troubles and challenges me to do better. Am I correct that it seems like we are not seeing as many victories as the apostles did in their day. I believe that we should be asking the Lord to do greater things through His people, including me. What do you think?

    It never seems like we do enough for Him. Maybe it's because of our apparently great debt that we owe for our hope of everlasting life. {Not that we are trying to pay for our salvation}
     
  8. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Bro. Ray :smile: Now don't forget you asked me what I think and ya'll take it up with Ray if you don't like what I say..... [​IMG]

    I was thinking of how many Apostles to every person ratio in that day and age. When you said "it seems like we are not seeing as many victories as the apostles did in their day...". Well what is our ratio to the preachers that belive the gifts still exsist or bigger still all the different denominations? Just concider in California alone there is 34 million people (I think?) to how many preachers in that area? It boggles the mind to think of what just the ratios are.
    Speaking of asking the Lord to do greater things, I hear some say "show me".... go into a hospital and heal all and then I'll believe. Its not me that needs to prove nothing, but the people that say show me... need to check what the word says and choose what they want to believe. Jesus called the Pharisees (religious leaders)in Matt.12:22-37 (*key verse 34) a generation of vipers that seek after signs. I am satisfied in knowing healings and miricals still happen. If I can read about 'em in my bible every day and believe it....and I see and hear testimonies about healings and how the Lord is moving in others lives at church... I see victories (even in my own life).

    On another thread I told people about the man in Africa that was raised from the dead in the basement of a building holding a Rhinehart Bonkey crusade (He *Bonkey* didn't know that there was a dead man there so its not like he had anything to do with it other than preaching the word, but I believe God had everything to do with it) But the last time I posted that story, people went off about Bonkey and totally lost sight of what happend with the dead man now living. I guess it just depends on what people want to believe? Kinda like them people in Matt.12.

    I believe that we should be asking the Lord to do greater things through His people, including me. What do you think?
    I think we need to be asking for revival. [​IMG]

    It never seems like we do enough for Him. Maybe it's because of our apparently great debt that we owe for our hope of everlasting life. {Not that we are trying to pay for our salvation}
    Isn't that the truth we never can do enough to show the gratitude of what Jesus did for us. And all He asked for us who believe to do... is to keep His commandments and to learn of Him. [​IMG]
    See John3v36's #7 for a reference. [​IMG]
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    John3v36 ?

    7. Its officers--PASTORS AND DEACONS. (I Tim. 3:1-16)
    It says Bishops and Deacons, but what about the Apostles, prophets,teachers,....(1Cor.12:28)? I also was wondering where you got the above list? [​IMG]


    Music4Him [​IMG]
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    John3 makes a good point. The one true church of God has endured persecution in all ages. He is right to point out Bible based beliefs that have endured centuries of persecution in the dark ages.

    The fact that you can not go to one "organization" and see perfection in every detail does not detract from that picture. In Rev 12 this was predicted - as we see the church of God thrown into 1260 years of persecution shortly after Christ leaves the earth.

    Through that entire 1260 year period of Rev 12 - it is ONE church - suffering persecution in the dark ages and emerging safe and secure.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. John3v36

    John3v36
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    Are you saying that Baptist churches/theology go all the way back to the 1st century church? If so, I say "nonsense". Congregationalism, Memorialism, Sola-Scriptura, Sola-Fide, Adult-only baptism/believer's baptism, and "all equal" were not a part of the early church landscape. You need to read some Church history, and some of the early Church fathers. You'll see no Baptist church...for 1500+ years. </font>[/QUOTE]I do not know where you get history.
    Baptist believe in the priesthood, Believers baptism (NOT Adult-only) my for oldest where all at 4 years of age and the sufficient of the Bible. You find all of the above throughout the history of the Christian church. Baby baptism dose not show up until almost the 2nd century.
    Check the Bible passages I gave you.


    [​IMG] Saint John
     
  11. John3v36

    John3v36
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  12. Doubting Thomas

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  13. pinoybaptist

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    Jude said:

    Depends on who's writing the church history for whom, and which church is calling whom a church father, don't ya'll think ?

    I mean, even among Baptists, I think the above is true. More so with Catholics, wot ?
     
  14. John3v36

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    Depends on who's writing the church history for whom, and which church is calling whom a church father, don't ya'll think ?

    I mean, even among Baptists, I think the above is true. More so with Catholics, wot ?
    </font>[/QUOTE]And what makes a Baptist church a baptist church.
    is it the name or the belief?

    It is the Beleif which has been around from the get-go.
     
  15. mioque

    mioque
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    "What about just plain old bible believeing churches? The good ole' God said it, Jesus did it, that settles it, churches?"
    ''
    They don't exist, well there are plenty of churches who claim to be like that, but put the members of a couple of such institutions that come from different cultures in a room together and make them talk about the right subjects....

    ...it's amazing how huge the rifts turn out to be
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    The Bible is the Word of God - believe it. There are a lot of theories going around about why we should not actually believe what it says - but they are wrong.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. John3v36

    John3v36
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    It is sad that chruch after church falls back on traditions and not the BIBLE!!!

    Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
     
  18. atestring

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    Depends on who's writing the church history for whom, and which church is calling whom a church father, don't ya'll think ?

    I mean, even among Baptists, I think the above is true. More so with Catholics, wot ?
    </font>[/QUOTE]And what makes a Baptist church a baptist church.
    is it the name or the belief?

    It is the Beleif which has been around from the get-go.
    </font>[/QUOTE]This is my understanding of what makes a Baptist church.
    The term "BAptist" comes fraom a derogatory term use to describe a Baptized Believer. this comes from the days when infant Baptism was the common baptism of the day and a man by the name of John SMyth believed that baptism is to be done after conversion and not just as a ruitual that happens to a child that has not choice in the matter. John Smyth and another man baptized each other because John Smyth believed that it took two or more people to constitute a church. The Baptism was not by immersion but by pounring water over each others head. The issue was rebaptism rather than immersion. Many were pesecuted and literally drowned by those that opposed believers Baptism because it broke with tradition that said that we are to be baptized as infants and that is all we need. Baptist as we know it today in America is a mix of the Seperatist and the and Puritans of england that were sent to America .
    There was persecution during the Revolutionary wasr by British soldiers that would go into communities and find a Baptist Preacher and do harm to him because of the hatred inbreed from the Church of England.
     

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