Featured Trayvon Martin's Parents Speak

I have of course heard this before, but it just does not add up. If this was true, then blacks would be careful not to do anything to make that worse. They would always have thier id ready, they would avoid dressing and looking like criminals, etc.

I read Eric Holder's comments to the NAACP meeting. He talked about having "the talk" with his sons about how they needed to act well around police officers. Well I had similar talks with my children, and they are white. Whey you are stopped by an officer you alway call them sir or ma'am, you keep your hands in plain site. If it is at night you turn on the interior car lights and keep your hands on the wheel. Have your license and registration ready. Always look them in the eye, answer their questions clearly and honestly. If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to be afraid of. This is common sense stuff every child should be taught.

If blacks were truely profiled like they claim they would all treat police officers with better than average respect. You would never hear one talking back or giving the police another reason to suspect them. They would never have drugs on them because they would expect to be stopped and checked. They would never try to shoplift because they would know they were being watched.

The reality just does not fit the argument.

 

He's an American citizen. He's entitled to seek redress of grievances.

The DoJ has no case against him and, even though they have not charged him with anything, they've already violated his 4th Amendment protected rights by seizing his property without charge.

As for a civil suit, the Martin's, who now appear to be capitalizing on their son's death, have no case.

 

I would say that any of us who are not black speak from ignorance regardless of which side you take, but especially those who say race was not involved. So, if you really want to know if Black people are discriminated against try doing what John Howard Griffin did a number of decades ago, 1959 to be exact. Through medications, sun tanning and dyes Griffin, a White man, became in appearance a Black man. He traveled primarily through the South and then wrote the book, Black Like Me. If you look and live as a black man than you, as a White person, can speak from firsthand knowledge.

 

Saying that unless one is black he cannot judge the situation rightly is:

1)Just stupid
2)Making race the issue and perpetuating racial stereotypes
3)Mind-numbingly asinine
4)Saying blacks and others are not equal human beings
5)fatuous
6)inane
7)imbecilic
8)and just plain goofy

And, therefore, does not spring from a biblical point of view.

 

Not often I agree with you.

 

Wait a minute here. So anyone who is not white needs to change their attitude, dress, and behavior to better accommodate those who would see them for who they aren't? What is proper about that attitude? Nothing. The minds of those who would view someone based on their color is what needs to change. Those who are being seen in a biased light are not the ones who should change to accommodate the bias.

BTW, a hoodie is simply a convenient, light weight clothing item. It is NOT "thug" wear. I wear them in lieu of heavier clothes. My kids wear them. Lots of people wear them. It shouldn't change someone's perspective if the person wearing a hoodie is a certain age or color.

Are you seriously suggesting I teach my children to change their behavior to accommodate ignorance? That because they are or are with friends that aren't one race, they should behave different than those other people? That those other people might be able to pull into a parking lot to view a map, but they shouldn't do so because they might arouse suspicion and sorry, but that's life and you have to deal with it? To go ahead and make sure you always carry proper identification and give it up to strangers politely because they ask and they think you look suspicious and it may be wrong, but accommodate them? Don't be upset when wrongfully pulled over or questioned by law enforcement, but be extra kind and cooperative?

Maybe people just get SICK of being treated like that and sick of being so accommodating. It doesn't need to be like that.

One of the reasons this case got to me so bad is (yet another) issue we had here in my family. Another walking down the street problem, which happens often, but this one was different in that it wasn't law enforcement that stopped anyone or paused. My 17 year old called me in a panic. She was walking home from a game at school. Alone. Some guy in a car was following her slowly, passed her, turned around, and parked facing the direction she was coming, staring at her. It was getting dark, nobody else was around.

According to your logic, what was the proper reaction? Pull out her identification? Assume he was a neighborhood watch captain? Be polite?

I'll tell you what my reaction was. Utter panic. A man in a car was following my daughter. She was scared. She was alone. She was unarmed. I kept her on the phone, grabbed another phone, and called 9-1-1 and reported her location. I stayed on the phone with them. I didn't have a car, but I grabbed a weapon and went towards my daughter. By the time I got there, the man took off.

It never occurred to me that there were break ins, or that it was a neighborhood watch, or that it was a concerned citizen. Some creep was in a vehicle following my seventeen year old daughter slowly and had parked the car and was staring at her. I wasn't planning on asking a lot of questions, I was planning on keeping my daughter safe. He had a vehicle that could kill and who knows what in that vehicle?

Go figure - when I told the officers I was there, they never bothered to show up. They did call and seemed very unconcerned, simply told my daughter that it was wrong to call her mom, to call them next time.

Now - let's think about next time, and when you think about this, think bigger about being polite, being nice, and following obligations, rules, and expectations.

If you have experienced law enforcement pulling you over, stopping you for walking down a street for no reason, knowing that you're suspicious just for not being white, if you've had your own family show up in a crisis to help you before the police, and the police never did show up, what is your reaction going to be?

Are you going to be more likely to afraid and ready to protect yourself in case of a next time?

Are you going to be much less trusting of law enforcement?

Are you going to be less likely to call them, and more likely to call family or friends for help?

I think that's true, and then there's the catch. The next time it happens, everyone is going to say "oh wow, that person should have done the right thing and called the police for help. They must have had something to hide. Look, they were walking down the street and they were armed, or they called their friends or family that were. These must be some people into bad stuff if they walk around ready for trouble."

And the myth gets perpetuated.

So no, I don't teach my children or their friends or anyone else to act all that different. I do teach them to have a voice, and I do teach them to be informed of what is going on in the world. I teach them about standing up for what is right, and when to stand down. I teach them about non-violent protests. It was sad for them to shocked by how violent non-violent protests can be. I showed them pictures of a non-violent protest in King's time, with people getting hurt by law enforcement and they gasped and said "I thought it was non-violent!" and I had to explain that it doesn't mean you don't get hurt. That sometimes law enforcement, the other side, or even stupid people on your own side won't act right.
I teach them proper clothing for a protest, what emergency items to bring, how to treat the types of medical issues that may happen, how to remain peaceful, etc..

But never will I teach them to sit down, shut up, and change from being normal, typical American kids just because doing so while a certain color might make them appear suspicious to ignorant people.

 

Tell you what Aaron, I will take experience over uninformed opinion every time ... and yours is simply uninformed opinion.

Why don't you make the changes and live as a Black man for six months. They I would respect your experienced opinion.

 

:laugh:

Yeah, Aaron, go be black, like C.T.Boy did.

:laugh:


These race discussions sure bring out the stupid.

 

So sorry, I must have communicated poorly. What I am suggesting is that we teach all our children, regardless of race, that they should treat law enforcement and security officers with respect. That we should avoid all appearance of evil and when questioned, justly or unjustly, to cooperate so that they can see we are not doing anything wrong.

OK, perhaps I did not communicate that poorly. Yes, exactly, that way they don't get shot by mistake. I don't think George ever wanted to kill Trayvon, not until he was getting beat down anyway. Cooperation and communication would have solved the problem without anyone dying.

Color has nothing to do with it. One of my sons got pulled over a few weeks ago and was hassled by the police. He was out late with his girlfriend and I think they thought he was someone else. When they started giving him a hard time he called me on his cell phone and his mother and I got out of bed and headed over there. We he told the police officers his mother was on her way they decided that they had put his tag number into the computer wrong and had him mixed up with someone else. They apologized and left before we arrived.

I think the truth was they were scared of his mother. But the point is my son was respectful and did what they wanted. He did not roll over and let them lock him up, but he also did not get out of the car, yell or threaten the police (although "my mom is on her way" is a bit of a threat).

Look sometimes you get hassled by police. It has happened to me many times and I am white. But if you want to get in a fight with them, its not going to end well for you.

 

I want to know what I have to do to "live as a black person does". Please tell me, because, like, I want C.T.Boy to respect my opinions, too. So tell me, how do black people live ?

Where's Zaac with his "racist" routine ? Is it such a loose phrase that you don't see actual racism when it happens ?

 

Bro, do as John Howard Griffin did back in 1959.

From an earlier post ...

So, if you really want to know if Black people are discriminated against try doing what John Howard Griffin did a number of decades ago, 1959 to be exact. Through medications, sun tanning and dyes Griffin, a White man, became in appearance a Black man. He traveled primarily through the South and then wrote the book, Black Like Me. If you look and live as a black man than you, as a White person, can speak from firsthand knowledge.

You could write an updated version of his book from your own experiences.

 

LOL. Your experience with racism is something you read in a book. By someone pretending to be black.

 

Quick question, would you rather be a teenaged black in the south in 1959, or in a Chicago ghetto in 2013 ?

 

I have no experience growing up in a city ghetto, so there is no way I can reasonably answer that question.

I grew up in the South and know that Blacks were severely discriminated against. My guess is that I know much more about racism and racial discrimination than you as I am older and I grew up in the South. It was not nearly as bad where I grew up, the Shenandoah Valley, as in other South localities.

The book is a very interesting book, one perhaps you should find and read. I remember one interesting story about when he decided to more on to another city as a Black widow had set her sights on catching him as her next husband.

You might also learn a bit by reading narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass

As I said, I will take his experience over your opinion. My experiences combined with his experiences gave me a pretty good idea of how bad it was back then. I think it is better now, but not nearly as good as it should be.

 

I'm not surprised that you think you no more than I do about anything.

I'm also not surprised you didn't answer my question.

If I ever want a book on what it's like to be black, I'll probably look for one written by a black guy, thank you.

 

Then read Frederick Douglass' book. He was black and a slave.

You might also want to read the "Slave Narratives." This is a collection collected during the depression. Under the WPA program people were sent out to interview Black folk who had been slaves. Of course by the 1930's they were quite elderly, but their narratives are enlightening. You can obtain them free online.

 

I did. I read Mr. Douglass' book. I have no desire to read any "slave" papers, save the ones that were written from the supply side. You know, the ones selling them to the American dealers. If you get ahold of any of those, let me know.

Now will you answer my question ?

 

No. It is a meaningless question.

I am not a teenager and have no idea what it is like to be a teenager anywhere in our society.

I am not black, so I can not speak with knowledge in that regard.

I have never lived in a big city ghetto, so I cannot speak to that.

The question is simply a red herring question.

 

North Carolina Tentmaker, I had to come back because this part of your comment is still bugging me and I had not replied.

A thief steals because he/she is a thief. Druggies have drugs on them.
If there ever is a group of humans that is crime free, clone them! However, profiling doesn't stop crime. A thief who is black isn't going to stop and say "Why, I forgot I'm black, thus I cannot steal this, for there are racial profilers out there!"

Now having us get followed while shopping sometimes DOES tempt me to act weird, in that I've considered throwing myself on the floor and screaming "Giant squid invasion!" just to get a rise out of people, but that's only in my mind. (see why I don't use drugs? don't need 'em, hehe)
My kids and their friends don't have criminal behaviors because they're not criminals. Racial profiling doesn't do anything to stop us from being criminals. We just don't WANT to be criminals.

However, it's a nice concept. Profile the crime out of humanity. LOL If it actually worked, that would be great and I'd be all for it. If it was true that it worked, we could just profile all humans and stamp out crime. Or...does that logic only work one race at a time?

I understand what you were saying, but I'm trying to gently push you a little towards seeing it from a different perspective by purposely taking your views a little bit further than you purposed, because I think that highlights some of the problematic issues with those views.

I'm sure you didn't *exactly* mean there is no racial profiling going on, and if there was then blacks wouldn't be committing any crimes, but that's what was said, so I went with it. Perhaps you actually meant something less extreme and were trying to express that, and a little bit of what appeared to be pretty crazy thoughts came through unintentionally, so hopefully you can see that now. That said...what DID you actually mean when you said that?