Trichotomy

What part of man is saved when he accepts Christ as his Savior?

It can't be our flesh/body because we die a little more each day.

It can't be our spirit/mind (Rom. 7)

It must be our soul that is saved and sealed.

 

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Craig just gave us a wonderful and unexpected example of this. He claims that children killing children is something that we need psychology to fully understand and address. Apparently Craig thinks (or at least has as the unintended consequence of his thinking) that children who killed children 500 years ago had no hope because psychology couldn't tell them why they did what they did. He apparently thinks that in order to understand man's problems, we need to "really understand" the soul.
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I don't agree with Craig. Psychology has no place in the life of a christian or non-christian (they just do not know or understand this yet). THis is trying to bring humanistic reasoning and philosophies in, where only God can and does and is capable of curing. Man's problems are sin, and their spritual deadness and separation from God because of this sin, to which only the blood of the Lamb can redeem. This has nothing to do with the trichotomy of man. God has said he made man in his own image. What is the image of God? God redeemed the whole man - in part now, fully at the resurrection.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Thers is no Scripture that can be used to make this case consistently. In fact, the body is not full of sins at all. Christ had a body and had no sin in it. Sin works itself out through the material, but it not located in the material. Your attempt to distinguish between the spirit (heart) and soul (mind) is contrary to Scripture. The Bible equates the two in things such as "thinking in his heart," and other similar instances. The Bible simply does not make those distinctions and neither should you.

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Actually I have said, and also shown how they are all inter-connected, yet distinctly separate from one another. Just as the image of God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

But as I pointed out, your demonstration of inter connectedness has the noted point of lacking any scriptural basis. Scripture does not make those distinctions.

 

But as has been pointed out, the Bible makes no distinction between the soul and the spirit. IT does not tell us what this supposed difference is. That is a major point that cannot be simply overlooked. And Romans 7 doesn't teach that the spirit is not saved. It teaches us that the sin principle still resides in teh life of hte believer.

 

Michelle, actually do you ever agree with anybody? I know this is a bit off-track, but I'm sure wondering how you are so much more knowledgeable than conservative pastors with years of education, experience and service.

Just curious.

 

I totally agree with Pastor Larry on this one. Good posts.

 

Pastor Larry,

Although I am most definitely not a dispensationalist by even the greatest stretch of the imagination, I know that you are, and therefore I am presenting the view of one of the most eminent dispensationalists of our time, Lewis Sperry Chafer, D.D., Litt.D., Th.D.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, vol. 2, pp. 180-182.

And Chafer quotes Marais for 10 paragraphs.

 

I am not a big fan of Chafer, and I am well aware fo the arguments for trichotomy. I just find them very unconvincing for hte purpose of dogmatism. I don't have a problem with someone who is a trichotomist. My systematic theology professor was a trichotomist, and I used to be ... then I got saved ... (just kidding friends). I don't really care all that much because as I have said many times, there is nothing at stake. The fact is still that the Scripture does not clearly distinguish the soul and spirit and tell what those distinctions are.

 

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Michelle, actually do you ever agree with anybody? I know this is a bit off-track, but I'm sure wondering how you are so much more knowledgeable than conservative pastors with years of education, experience and service.

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Phillip,

Is there anytime that you ever stand for the truth, instead of just trying to find something with me to argue about because of your bias agianst me?

Just curious.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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But as has been pointed out, the Bible makes no distinction between the soul and the spirit. IT does not tell us what this supposed difference is. That is a major point that cannot be simply overlooked. And Romans 7 doesn't teach that the spirit is not saved. It teaches us that the sin principle still resides in teh life of hte believer.
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What are the fruits of the Holy Spirit? Where does the spirit reside? Now take a look at this:


Romans 12

1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


and.....


16. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23. Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Hebrews 4:12 is the closest reason for a distinction that I can see. It isn't clear what exactly that distinction might be. However, it seems one can be made.

As I have understood it, those that say man is composed of body, soul, and spirit do so because the Bible says that we are made in God's image. Since God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons and yet one God, man also must be three distinct parts and yet one.

I cannot say for sure myself because I have not studied it in great detail. Just giving my observations on some things I have read in passing.

 

........sorry, those verses are from Galations 5.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Tend to lean toward being a tri-chotomist, but this is NOT an area I am going to fight over .

 

Yeah, I won't fight over it either. Nevertheless, I do find it an interesting discussion minus the personal attacks.

 

Galatians 5
19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Strife indeed.

Here we go again. I suspected that this would happen in this thread.

Perhaps it should be mercifully closed before the bloodletting proceeds any further.
Just my opinion.

HankD

 

Michelle,

The Spirit resides in the immaterial part of man. The Galatians 5 passage does not talk about this subject however. The flesh and Spirit are not the material immaterial parts, but rather the sinful man vs. the spiritual man. All of that has to do with the immaterial part of man.

TC,

I take the Hebrews 4 passage as a Hebraism speaking of the fact that SCripture penetrates to the very center of man's being ... it leaves no area untouched. I find the Trinity argument very weak since 1) Scripture does not make it, and 2) the analogy breaks down (which of those is the flesh, spirit, and soul?). I have found it easier to just go with two parts: material and immaterial. It is not foolproof nor beyond question, but I think it is the best way to view it.

 

At the risk of everybody calling this an off-track personal attack, I AM going to answer the question.

Michelle, when you say I have a "bias" against you, no I do not agree with your KJVo opinion and I disagree with a lot of your judgemental remarks (such as Billy Graham is not saved). Other than that, I stand for the truth all of the time, I have told you Billy Graham has planted many GOOD seeds and thousands (if not millions) will see Jesus because of it.) THAT is standing for truth.

I also stand against the false doctrine of KJVoism. THAT is standing for truth.

Just because you disagree with that does not mean I have a bias against YOU. So, please, quit telling everybody they are slandering you when they disagree with you.

That was ALL I was saying and that IS all I will say. Of course, I know you will want to get the last word. . . (sorry moderators, but I just had to answer that question.

But, when someone does not know a debate on an issue from a personal attack and is so judgemental to everyone, I feel a need to at least TRY to point our sister down the proper path of becoming a mature and LOVING Christian. Michelle has many good points, but on points of disbelief becomes very bitter.....THAT IS A TRUTH!)

 

Uh, no opinion on the subject of the thread.

 

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Michelle, when you say I have a "bias" against you, no I do not agree with your KJVo opinion and I disagree with a lot of your judgemental remarks (such as Billy Graham is not saved). Other than that, I stand for the truth all of the time, I have told you Billy Graham has planted many GOOD seeds and thousands (if not millions) will see Jesus because of it.) THAT is standing for truth.

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Well, the fact is that you do have a bias against me because of my stand for the word of God. Then you have a bias against me because I have applied scriptural truth to a man, while you have only applied your opinion, and then claim that what I have said and believe is wrong. You have not applied scriptural truth, to either issue. I have. THen you come against me with these accusations and name calling. I am merely sharing the scriptural truth. You are merely sharing your opinions, and your bias is manifest when you come against me and make such comments continually, when the scriptural truth disagrees with your opinion. You think and say that I am wrong. If I am wrong, then show me with the scriptures, for it is from the scriptural truth that what I say and believe here on these threads comes from. You are defending things without testing them by the scriptures, but only your opinions of them, and then say I am wrong and I think only I am right. I do not believe I am right. I believe God's truth is right and believe it and share it. This obviously conflicts with your opinion, but you cannot prove your opinion is correct, because it is not coming from scriptural truth.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle