True salvation test

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Frenchy, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. Frenchy

    Frenchy
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    is there some kind of biblical test that can be taken to see if someone is really saved and not just have a said faith?

    i am dealing with someone who thinks they are saved, but their life has never indicated that they are.

    please help!
     
  2. Brice

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    I wouldn’t say there is “test’ per se, but here is an excerpt from John MacArthur’s Study Bible.

    I. Evidences That Neither Prove Nor Disprove One’s Faith.
    A. Visible Morality: Matt. 19:16-21; 23:27
    B. Intellectual Knowledge: Rom. 1:21; 2:17
    C. Religious Involvement: Matt. 25:1-10
    D. Active Ministry: Matt. 7:21-24
    E. Conviction of Sin: Acts. 24:25
    F. Assurance: Matt. 23
    G. Time of Decision: Luke 8:13,14

    II. The Fruit/Proofs of Authentic/True Christianity.
    A. Love for God: Pss. 42:1ff; 73:25; Luke 10:27; Rom. 8:7
    B. Repentance from Sin: Ps. 32:5; Prov. 28:13; Rom. 7:14; 2 Cor. 7:10; 1 John 1:81-10
    C. Genuine Humility: Ps. 51:17; Matt. 5:1-12; James 4:6,9
    D. Devotion to God’s Glory: Pss. 105:3; 115:1; Is. 43:7, 48:10; Jer. 9:23,24; 1 Cor. 10:31
    E. Continual Prayer: Luke 18:1; Eph. 6:18; Phil. 4:6; 1 Tim. 1:1-4; James 5:16-18
    F. Selfless Love: 1 John: 2:9, 3:14; 4:7
    G. Separation from the World : 1 Cor. 2:12; James 4:4; 1 John 2:15-17, 5:5
    H. Spiritual Growth: Luke 8:15; John 15:1-6; Eph. 4”12-16
    I. Obedient Living: Matt. 7:21; John 15:14; Rom. 16:26; 1 Pet. 1:2,22; 1 John 2:3-5
    J. Hunger for God’s Word: 1 Pet. 2:1-3
    K Transformation of Life: 2 Cor. 5:17
     
  3. Brice

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    If List I is true of a person and List II if false, there is cause to question the validity of one’s profession of faith. Yet if List II is true, then the top list will be also. (From the same Study Bible)
     
  4. bapmom

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    I John 5:1-13

    Believe ON Jesus as the Christ (different than just believing Christ existed or even just being afraid of Him, as the Devils are.)

    Frenchy,

    what if someone else looked at your life and decided that you had not sufficiently proven to them that you were actually saved? Be careful not to apply your own standards to this other person's life, and decide based on those standards that they have not progressed to any success in their Christian life so they must not be saved.
    God works on the inside first, and for some of us there's alot more issues on the inside that need to be taken care of than for others. For instance, a lack of self-discipline will manifest itself in many ways which to us outsiders will look like worldly practices. Some people are raised without much discipline at all, and as adults they have alot harder time overcoming that. But maybe this person has gained a great victory over some kind of inner issue that you don't even know about....but God does.

    I believe it is very presumptuous of us to decide that another person must not be saved.
     
  5. Brice

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    Bapmom speaks truth. [​IMG]
     
  6. Frenchy

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    this person is my step daughter who is 29. we have had this talk about her walk with the Lord, that there is no evidence that she is really saved based on her life style and choices. since i have known her when she was 14, she has no problem with smoking cigeretts and weed, drinking alchol, foul language and anger issues. has no problem with having sex outside of marriage, has lived with two men before she married both, divorcing one. hardly goes to church and when she does it is a very liberal seeker service kind. self centered expects me and others to cater to her desires. etc. etc.

    to me there is NO indication that she is saved. i like brice's list which biblically confirms what a true believer is that there should be fruit and evidence showing a person is saved. i have a friend who fits the same catagory, we "brought" her to the Lord only to see no evidence.

    bapmom i think if someone were to look at my life they would say i was saved, just by the list brice put up.
     
  7. bapmom

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    Frenchy,

    the list that Brice put up is not what I would ask you about if we were discussing your personal salvation.

    I would ask you if you have trusted in Jesus as your own Saviour, if you believe He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that it is only through Him that you can be saved from the penalty of your sin.

    As for your stepdaughter, why does she say that she is saved? How does she describe her salvation to you? Can she do so at all? And is there a reason within her testimony that you doubt that experience?

    The problem I see with your evaluation of the friend you brought to Christ, is that there might not be evident fruit for quite some time. He may struggle in the area of producing any visible fruit for years. He may indeed just not be growing. He might never have truly understood what salvation is, and needs more witnessing.
     
  8. Frenchy

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    yes i have asked her that and she will not give me an answer but gets defensive. another indication she has a said faith and prayed a prayer without true repentance.
     
  9. Frenchy

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    i too looked up john macarthur on the subject and feel this really helps the matter. hopefully she will understand it.

    he wrote

    Second is the subjective or experiential test of assurance in which you ask yourself, "Is my faith real?" The apostle John's purpose in writing the epistle of 1 John was to give true believers assurance of their salvation (1 John 5:13). In that small epistle John gives several marks to distinguish a true believer. These are:
    True believers walk in the light (1 John 1:6-7). The light here means both intellectual and moral truth. Ask, "Do I affirm the truths of Scripture, and desire to obey them?"

    True believers confess their sin (1:8-2:1) Confess here doesn't mean to recite every wrong that we have ever done. Rather, it means to agree with God about our sin. That means that true believers hate their sin; they don't love it. They acknowledge they are sinful, and yet they know they are forgiven.

    True believers keep His commandments (2:3-4; 5:2-3). The term here refers to a watchful, observant obedience. Here the believer desires to obey truths he deems precious. It involves a proactive approach to obedience-the Christian studies Scripture in order to understand and obey it.

    True believers love the brethren (2:9-11; 3:10, 14-15; 5:2). Ask yourself the question, "Do I love God's people and desire to be around them?"

    True believers affirm sound doctrine (2:20-23; 4:2,6). John here teaches that no true believer will fall into any serious, Christ-denying error or heresy.

    True believers follow after holiness (2:29; 3:3-4, 6-9). These verses certainly aren't talking about sinless perfection, or even the frequency or duration of sin. The term sin in these verses describes one who lives an immoral, ungodly, unrighteous life as a matter of continual practice, and carries the attitude of hardened hate for God's righteousness.

    True believers have the Holy Spirit (4:13; 5:10-11). This is an over-arching test summing up all the others. Is there evidence that the fruit of the Spirit is present in your life (Galatians 5:22-23)?
    In summary, one's assurance of salvation does not need to be based on a past decision or an experience. It should rest first of all on one's faith in the objective truth of God's Word, Jesus Christ, and the gospel. Secondly, it should rest on the reality of a changed life marked by obedience, a love for Christ and His righteousness, and a hatred for sin. Take heart if these things are true in your life, and trust God to continue to work out His salvation in your life.
     
  10. bapmom

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    Frenchy,

    please understand, Im not attacking you at all in this.

    But she's going to be defensive with you now, IF you have claimed to her that her works are not sufficient to prove to you that she is really saved. Usually defensiveness comes when we feel we are being attacked as a person. I know thats not your intention, but she is in a state of rebellion, and her defensiveness in and of itself can be an indication that she is feeling conviction from God.
    Please don't question to her the validity of her salvation any longer. I think if she's being defensive than you are no longer helping but harming. Don't close the door to her listening to another witness.
    Try to get her to go to your church with you.....if you have a pastor who gives a clear presentation of the gospel on a regular basis in his messages.
     
  11. Frenchy

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    she doesn't live where we do, three hours away and no i do not think you are attacking me why would you think so?
     
  12. Frenchy

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    we are currently reading a book by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron "The Scool of Biblical Evangilism" which has been a real eye opener to the fact there are a lot of people in churches (especially liberal seeker service ones) today who claim to be saved who really are not, just because they prayed a prayer or remember a date when the asked Jesus in, but never had a true conversion. it really has made me look at those who's walk don't match their talk. not that i am judging, just not assumimg everyone who says Lord lord is saved including my own children.
     
  13. Ron Arndt

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    I think we all need to remember the Lord deals with us as individuals and not with some chart up on the wall to meet some daily quota. We were all saved imperfect and the last time I checked I am still imperfect.

    Salvation lies simply in trusting IN Jesus Christ. God does not do a makeover on us a Volkswagen into a Cadillac. But he does improve our character as we abide in the Lord over many years. Some folks grow spiritually quickly, while others are stubborn like me and must be pampered and nurtured for a long time, to turn that frog into a prince.

    But it is wrong to look at someone who is in your eyes suppose to be a Christian and you know first hand that they still smoke, watch the wrong kind of TV shows and still wish they could lob a few grenades into the supervisor's office at work. Why? Because our Lord must CAUSE us to grow by HIS SPIRIT and waiting for us to finally realize, "I'm not what I should be" and I could be better. Then we submit when we finally realize you can't straddle the fence and really be happy in your walk with the Lord. Time is the key.
     
  14. bapmom

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    but see, its not up to us to test another person's salvation. I often am called a "legalist" because I have some personal standards of dress and conduct which some others don't agree with. Ok, but according to what I would think of as legalism, testing another person's salvation based on their how "good" or "bad" they act is the ultimate fulfillment.

    Im just saying to be cautious. If you start to "badger" your stepdaughter about how she acts, you will only be pushing her further away. I have a sister who went through a rebellious time like this. God finally got through to her, after she had been brought to rock bottom, and she now is living for God again. She never said that she was not saved during that time, but it took over ten years for her to get through this. Thats how long she fought God.

    I also don't assume that everyone who says "Lord, Lord" is saved.....but Im not going to judge their works for them.
     
  15. Ron Arndt

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    Amen, bapmom.You're right on
     
  16. JackRUS

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    One more important test...love for the brethren.

    "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." 1 John 3:14

    When one gets saved they always have a unique love for fellow Christians. Even if they don't know them. I can attest that this happened to me. (Titus 3:15)

    And perhaps at times we shouldn't test others to see if they are saved. But our church does before we allow them to become members since we have congregational rule. (1 Cor. 2:14)

    But the individual had better test themselves to see if they be in the faith!

    "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in
    you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Cor. 13:5
     
  17. Brice

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    I hope I didn't imply a "test" of salvation; that was not my intention. I was simply trying to give some scriptual standards, by which you could assess something. Salvation is a personal thing and all we can do is preach the good news and pray. God bless.
     
  18. Frenchy

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    I think i will stick with scripture and John Macarthur on this one. thanks anyway, i am not pushing my step daughter. Without going into personal details and circumstances, you don't understand what is going on. I asked for a biblical test, not opinions.

    It's called tough love and calling sin for what it is sin. God doesn't want people to be deceived, or living a lie. If one goes through life thinking they are saved just because they are told they prayed a prayer, that is doing a disservice to them and their eternal state. If you really care about people you will not worry about hurting their feels but saving them from a lie and hell. Sorry love is helping someone see the truth and making things right with God their maker.

    Isn't that the whole reason we witness to people?
    So some of you are saying we should witness to people based on their claim to be a christian and if they say they are, stop witnessing and sharing the truth, leave them alone, where is that in the Bible?

    you can't expect someone who isn't saved to act like a christian, just as God wouldn't want christians to act like the unsaved. why are some steering away from biblical truths on this matter? When did personal opinions become more important than biblical truths?
     
  19. Frenchy

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    I find this quote by Ron Arndt
    interesting if not contradicting?

    WITHOUT holiness no man shall see God.Hebrews 5:9.Remember that Sunday school song "This little light of mine?" Is it shinning?
     
  20. Brice

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    Well I hope all goes well and I will keep her in my prayers; I'm sure others will as well. God bless.
     

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