Trying to help people that are problematic

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    I know a guy that is very low income as is FAST FOOD and he rarely ever has any money. Does not own a car, can't pay his rent most of the time, etc.. However a key problem is his lifestyle. He goes out to eat often, has an iPhone, etc.. Its either he is very low income, or he chooses to spend on what he likes. I have tried to help him by suggesting he cook his own food but what I say goes in one ear and out another.

    Another individual whom is in my sunday school often complains and asks prayer for financial needs. I have tried to offer her suggestions on how to get out of the under 20K a year situation she finds herself in year after year, but she does not listen. I have suggested that she relocate, or that she work harder, create a larger focus of types of jobs, etc.. Sometimes in life you do not always get what you want, and I think she is in the category that she could only do a job that she loved and if she has no job that she loves, she will not work, which I think is a mistake. I know she had a job starting out at 20K a year, but she got fired as she was lazy, unmotivated, undisciplined, because it was not a job that she loved. She mentioned this once that she had problems showing up on time, among other issues, and she mentioned that she did not like the job.

    Any suggestions?? I do not have a job that I love and God does not always provide this. Read Slave by John MacArthur. Sometimes he may give us a job that we love, and other times he may not.
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2012
  2. saturneptune

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    One of the hardest things to do is to convince someone to change spending habits they have learned to enjoy despite the negative effects it is having on their lives. Years ago, we were all told not to depend on Social Security for our entire retirement, and to plan. From the results today, many chose not to listen. We all know individuals that Social Security is their only income. In all the years of talking to friends, family, coworkers about the subject, I have never figured out how to break that barrier.
     
  3. annsni

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    You tell them once, you gently tell them a second time and then you tell them "I'm sorry. I would pray for you but you are not helping yourself at all and instead, working against God's work in your life. When you decide to change your lifestyle, come to me and I might be able to help."

    Unfortunately, this culture teaches us that we "need" stuff. When one is truly destitute, they realize either that someone will bail them out or that they need to get on the ball and pull themselves up from their bootstraps. Until they get to the latter, there is no helping them.
     
  4. Iconoclast

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    Jesus is Lord. He is Lord over every aspect of our lives.we are to be stewards of every part of our lives. Our thoughts, actions, time, speech, vocations , and all monetary actions.
    Failing to be a good steward is sinful...Col 3:17,23....eph5:1-17...they need to consider this in making choices
     
  5. Salty

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    They will agree there needs to be changes for everyone - except for them:saint:
     
  6. abcgrad94

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    I've found that lots of people want to complain about finances in hopes of a handout, not advice. I've been amazing by folks who make double what we do, complaining about how they can't afford to make ends meet, when they have mismanaged what they have.

    I'd tell them to pray for wisdom in managing their money.
     
  7. saturneptune

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    IMO, the number of people on Social Security only in retirement is the best evidence that we as a nation do not plan, set priorites, or have a budget.
     
  8. evangelist6589

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    Thanks all for the great advice. These people do not want to change and will not listen. Finding your dream job is not a reality for millions and settling only on working in something that you like is foolish.
     
  9. Berean

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    Unfortunately the life style mentioned here is past down from one generation to another usually. In far too many instances these people are content to live "hand to mouth" as my grandmother use to say, with no desire to better themselves.
    Several years ago I went back to Southwest WV, the place of my early childhood (elem. school) and found that a lot of the same families were living the same way as they did 50 years ago; getting free hot lunches and recieving the same "stuff" from the state and churches that their families did. Their desire was to complete the eighth grade then, today graduate from high school. By contributing to the them you are merely abetting them, not helping them. This is like buying alcohol for an alcoholic.
     
  10. ktn4eg

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    In many cases, people's minds are already made up to the extent that if one tries to point out their wrong mindset (much less the ways that such a wrong mindset ultimately produces), they refuse to heed anyone's contrary advice.

    Even Jesus faced these kinds of people while He was here on earth (Luke 13:1-5).

    To reverse the old adage, many people would rather eat the fish from the goverment's (read "Our hard-earned tax money") fisheries than to lift a finger to learn how to fish for themselves.

    In fact, here in Nashville they've got it down to a science: There's a group of people (probably with the most sincere intentions too) that offers what I guess are homeless people to stand out on street corners of well-trafficked routes (I can drive by at least a half dozen of these corners just within no less than 3-4 miles from my residence!) where they charge folks $1.00 each to purchase a homeless advocacy type newspaper. Sounds noble enough at first glance until one realizes that this foundation that supports this also GUARANTEES each homeless person who agrees to sell this paper an income that far exceeds that of the minimum-wage earner who at least has the initiative to learn how to flip burgers at Mickey D's!! I guess I'd be selling papers too rather than taking a cut in pay to flip burgers in a hot, sweatty kitchen for several hours!!

    Point is, that some people have gotten so used to this "entitlement mentality" (i.e., I breathe & take up space;ergo, I'm ENTITLED to have as much as I can get for FREE!!)

    One can only do so much for these people who may never change their minds. Even saved people can be of this mindset. (I'm not sure what these professed believers do with 2 Thess. 3:10, though--Maybe their Bible is one of those MV's that don't have that verse in it, yah think??!!?? :smilewinkgrin:)

    Or to use an OT example, there's Joshua on his knees in Joshua 7 almost blaming God for their defeat at Ai. It wasn't God's fault (nor 99.9% of the armies that went out to fight. It was because of one man who disobeyed that defeat occurred! One man. Now, I'm not saying we need to stone every freeloader (+ his wife & children, etc.) that's in our midst, but if they REFUSE to hear Bible-based advice, then one is just wasting one's time after awhile.

    What grieves me is the fact that many times innocent people are also affected by this SIN! I've seen hungry children of a man who recklessly spent all his & his wife's savings to play for that brand-new Lexus he just HAD to have, and many of you all out there in BB Land could probably think of some cases where similar things have taken place.

    Galatians 6 talks about the principle of reaping and sowing. That's one principle that God has not yet chosen to revoke.
     
  11. saturneptune

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    The millions that are on Social Security today as their sole source of income in most cases only have themselves to blame. Aside from not listening to the advice to plan for retirement, that Social Security was only a supplement, it is not like the choice was either planning for retirement or eating. In the vast majority of cases, it is because that during working years, that money went to new cars, lavish vacations every year, extravigent Christmases, new cars for kids, etc. Then, at 60 or 65, they wake up and say, "gee, all we have to live on is Social Security." Then the 20 or so year woe is me song begins.
     
  12. evangelist6589

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    So you are saying that the female in the singles group at church that only wants to do a "dream job" and won't do anything else is being foolish? Some career books preach to only work in a dream vocation, but this is not always a reality. Met a person today whose college degree was not paying the mustard and this person need to either relocate, or get new skills.

    Met another person whose Masters degree did not get him a job in the field, but he had a ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MINDSET! Yes he was doing deliveries for a warehouse/shipping company and working in the warehouse. Yes he is far overqualified for this type of work, but its what he could find in this limited area, and although not his dream vocation, it is a job. He could have chosen to stay unemployed until he found his dream vocation, which may never happen.
     
  13. saturneptune

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    I am in 100% agreement with you. First of all, when students choose a major, it is usually some easy subject like business that has a flooded market, or a major they think will be fascinating like astronomy, that has almost no job opportunties. If they had researched, they could have found a major that had a market AND they could work in. It might not be their "dream" job, but it is a salary.

    Our number one job is to provide for our families, and that means in all respects from clothing, shelter, education, transportation, and the one we forget, retirement. Vacations, iphones, internet, elaborate Christmases are not needs. They come second. Retirement is a need.

    Thank you for this thread.
     
  14. evangelist6589

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    I agree with you, however in todays job market one needs Internet access to look for a job at 99% of companies, especially if they live in a area far away from access. Yes if one lived in an apartment complex with access in the lobby or local library then there is no need to have it at home, but not everyone has that luxury. I know in my own situation internet access is not a want but a need, and I do not live near any local access. But without access I would not be able to look for a job, connect with family and friends, my girlfriend, look for a place to rent, etc..

    Besides that disagreement I agree with you. I myself did not research the job market very carefully before I found my major and I wish that I did 7 years later. Sadly most career books these days speak about finding ones "dream job" and being fulfilled which I ave bought into. However I am learning that what they say is more an ideal than a reality. Dream jobs do not work for 50% of the work force according to some research.

    The secret is to pair your purpose with market demand as Susan Whitcomb would say. That is you find your skills and our passions and if possible find a marketable career with them. However 48 days to the Work you Love, Quitter, No More Mondays, and such books teach one to look for a dream job before looking at the market which is foolish.
     
    #14 evangelist6589, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2012
  15. SovereignMercy

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    I guess Paul didn't believe in retirement. He kept at his calling to the end, by God's grace I intend to as well. My retirement is in heaven.

    For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
     
  16. saturneptune

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    That was Paul's choice. No one does that today, and the example Paul set here does nothing to solve the problem in this thread. Besides that, Paul was in the ministry. Although there are quite a few on this board, it is not a big percentage of the overall population. A carpenter or highway worker does not work until he dies at 85.
     
  17. annsni

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    Most of the time, there is a difference between "calling" and "ministry". I know many men who retired from their jobs but continued in ministry - even pastors. So while Paul kept his calling to the end, did he continue his tent making until his death?
     
  18. Oldtimer

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    What did people do before Al Gore invented the Internet? What do people do today, who are not Internet savy? Or, choose not to let computers, cell phones, and other technology rule their lives?

    Newspapers still have help wanted ads and for rent ads.
    The grapevine still carries word of job openings and rentals.
    State employment offices still match job openings with people.
    Job fairs still happen.
    Around here, grocery stores and such still have free publications listing rental opportunities.

    I may be an old foggie, but I still use an old fashioned land line, for the most part, to connect with friends and family. Still count that as a blessing, as I grew up in a home without a telephone. "Connection" was done by letter writing, and visiting. Staying "connected" back then, didn't mean that we had to know, minute by minute, every small detail of their lives.

    How many average highschool kids do job market research and read tons of career books BEFORE either joining the workforce or obtaining higher education?

    I suspect that many of us wish we'd made different choices earlier in life. But that is real life. 20/20 hindsight is well and good, unless we dwell on the what if's that cannot be changed. What if I'd decided to get a degree in textiles from NC State back in the 60's? With the number of job opportunities in the state (and nation) it would have made sense to work towards a management position in that field. At the time Burlington Industies, for exaple, was the largest menswear manufacturing operation in the world with multiple plants in this general area. Better half was a textile lab technician. That is until the jobs went overseas. Along with all the job opportunities in that field.

    Brother was a manager in an operation that produced wood/lumber supplies for the NC furniture market. SIL was a manager in a national brand office furniture supplier manufacturing operation. Both of those operations have closed. Two highly skilled people who made seemingly good career choices at the time. Both enjoyed their work. There are few opportunites left in the USA for them to continue in their "dream jobs". Relocate overseas? Leave behind what's truely important in life to chase a "dream"?

    This "secret" may have been applicable 50-60 years ago when job markets were fairly stable. Take a hard look at what's happened since then. What happened to all the "dream" jobs that no longer exist, when people made their decisions relating to them. Talk to those who sought real estate licences, a few years ago, for their dream jobs. Talk to those with degrees in mechanical engineering about dream jobs here in the US. Talk to those with doctorate degrees in education about today's "dream jobs". Talk to former Radio/TV repair shop owners who went into the business because they loved the work.

    Talk to me. I had a "dream" job in the computer industry. At least I though I did, until reality set in. Worked hard to get that "Data Processing Manager" title stuck on the door of my office. When that job ended, I walked away from that "career". There wasn't enough money to entice me to stay in that rat race of a "dream" job.

    BTW, I'd read most of the career books, available at the time. Motivational types who encouraged me to seek the pie in the sky. With 20/20 hind sight, the reality was that the dollars I spent on those supported their "dream jobs".

    In closing, I'm reminded of the scriptures that tell us to put bread on the table by the sweat of our brow. I'm reminded that Jesus was a carpenter. Reminded, as well, that most of the 12 He called worked with their hands, too. Correct me, if I'm wrong. I don't remember anywhere in His teaching that we are to put so much importance on "career" and seeking "dream jobs". He, who could have had the riches of the world, only had the clothes on His back, when He died for us.
     
  19. Oldtimer

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    Well said!

    The most active people, in the ministry of our church, have retired from their professions.

    I can't picture our pastor "sitting in a rocking chair" after he retires from holding a full time position in a church. He'll still follow God's calling, until our Lord calls him home. Of that I have no doubt.
     
  20. Arbo

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    Trying to help people that are problematic

    With regard to the OP, you know what they say about leading horses to water. Some people don't want real help, that is to say that they don't want to be taught how to take care of themselves. They either want others to do it for them, or they're happy in their present states.
     
    #20 Arbo, Nov 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2012

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