Twentysomethings Leaving The Church??

Since we're on the subject of 20-somethings & church, take a look at what some would call a "cutting-edge" ministry to this age:

www.rockthechurch.com

The Minneapolis branch of this ministry draws 600-700 young people to their Saturday evening meeting, from what I've been told.

From what I've also been told, the message is solid, but the methods of sharing it would sure seem foreign to this older, traditional Baptist.

Does anyone have any thoughts/opinions or experience with this type of outreach to young people?

 

Personally, I think it is a complete abomination.

Andy

 

The methods must change and the message must remain the same. This is a major issue.... I am an older genxer... born in 1966.. my wife is a little younger. She was raised in a traditional fundy church and private school where the teachers are all BJU grads. We like many styles, but find it hard to worship to a headbanger beat. A mixed service even works for us.

However, the personal preference in worship style is just that...

I am involved in youth/children's ministry and will always insist on the solid exposition of His word, however I may use a more up to date method to get it across to the kids. Powerpoint and CCM may be part of that where I may also throw in a hymm. The xers and their children like some spontenaity, and change. We want solid teaching and some structure, but not rigidly controlled structure.

Our churches have done a great job of reaching the Boomers ( the Cleavers) which was a major objective in the last 20 years. However we have, for the most part lost the generation following and are in danger of losing the next and now current generation. Soft preaching will not reach them. Love and a culturally relevant service will reach them. The Cleavers need to reach the Bundy family, if you understand what I mean. The Summit church in Peoria AZ has done a great job of reaching gen next...

 

What I wonder about the types of ministries such as the example I linked to above is this: Where would those 600-700 youths be otherwise? Would they be in your church, or in mine? They haven't been, and they aren't now, so what would bring them to our churches in the future?

These types of ministries (from what I know) seem to be able to attract youths with all of the physical traits that would make them stand out so much in the great majority of Baptist churches: the tattoos, piercings, dyed-hair, etc. If we're to be honest we all know what I'm talking about, and we'd have to agree that we simply don't welcome people with certain types of appearances within our church walls. They make us uncomfortable, and that uncomfort is palpably felt by the person. They can see through our best efforts at trying to make them "fit in".

I don't doubt in the slightest that Jesus wouldn't have any trouble at all relating to the types of people that often feel shunned by most Christians. He was often criticized about the types of people he socialized with and ministered to, and much to my dismay I can't help but feel that we tend to resemble in many ways the Pharisees and Sadducees who were critical of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

What specifically don't you like about it?

 

I used to be one of those very same people.... We need to reach them where they are. Get into their world and find them. Jesus did not just sit around waiting for folks to come to Him. The Boomers were content to walk into a church when they were seeking... That was where you go for spiritual answers.

Today, they have been taught that there are no absolute values or answers. They base most of their choices on experience. Often you have a better chance getting to them away from church, especially unchurched families. You can get them to sit through a few words from scripture and a short discussion of it, after they see you truly living your faith. They will pick out hipocracy from 100 yards away and bolt before you have a chance to share the Gospel. It is all about living your relationship with the Lord in authenticity.

If you really and truly care... even if nervous... they wil respond to it. Yes, they will sense your discomfort and they are probably uncomfortable too, but they will sense true caring also.

 

What specifically don't you like about it? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, wazzup? I checked it out, and though I have a minor reservation or two, it looks great!

 

First of all, there is the opening screen on their web site. You have a dark alley and a closed door with a couple guys sitting out side. It looks like the entrance to some drug hangout or seedy nightclub. Then you click on the door and it opens to what looks like a rock concert/dance club. When did Christ or the Apostles ever present their message using the worst elements of worldly society? Right off the bat, this “ministry” presents itself as extremely worldly and man-centered – seeking to “win” the world to the world with the world. That is not a Christ-centered ministry.


Then I went to the “What is the Rock” portion of their website:

This teaches a complete disrespect for the Lord’s Day. I don’t have a problem with teens meeting on a Friday night, but to say Sunday morning is your time is not Biblical. Don’t bother about going to church on the Lord’s Day, that’s time for sleeping in, reading the comics, and doing your own thing (contra Isa. 58:13-14 ).

I understand that many on this BB have no problem with CCM or so-called Christian rock but rock music does not glorify God. It is a violation of Romans 12:1-2 in addition to scores of other passages. It is amazing to me that otherwise sound Christian people see nothing wrong with such ungodly music. It leads people away from God, not towards Him.

Sound doctrine is real, too. These comments reveal a man-centered ministry philosophy rather than a Christ-centered philosophy. I teach the Bible and apply its truths to everyday issues that teens face, but I don’t downplay Scripture and doctrine that the teens are “not dealing with.” You cannot have sound practice without sound doctrine. Only with the right foundation can you effectively deal with the “tough stuff.”

The Bible places an emphasis on older, more spiritually mature believers teaching the younger (cf., Titus 2). It’s not that younger guys can’t be in the ministry but this statement advocates as a positive that is opposite of what the Bible emphasizes. Then it says that the Rock is a church but what kind of church meets on Friday and only has teens in it? What kind of deformed Body is that?

This statement places Jesus Christ in an unbiblical light. Christ was not a revolutionary. That kind of verbiage pictures Christ as rebellious, not someone who sought to do God’s will. We don’t present Jesus Christ as some kind of hip and cool dude to follow. We need to present Him as the Bible does – as a Lion and a Lamb. He is the Lord God of Heaven who will come to judge the world in righteousness as well as the loving Savior of all men who died on the cross for their sins.


All of this runs contrary to what I consider to be a Biblical philosophy of ministry.

Andy

 

Two observations. Music being played with lights and drums don't represent the worst elements of worldly society. Second, Jesus Christ presented his message to the worst of the worldly society. It appears that the Rock is trying to do the same thing.

I am reminded of Romans 14:5 - "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God. He who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God." This tells me two things: That the Sabbath isn't on a specific day, (which is good, since I imagine none of us here worship on Saturday), and that the time chosen by people to give to the Lord is done for and to the Lord. So, I have no problem with worshipping together on Friday or Saturday or Sunday or any other day.

And this is, i think, a matter of experience. I can speak from personal experience and seeing in the eyes of students that contemporary music most certainly leads people to Him. It's not in the type of music, but in the heart that is focused upon worshipping a living God tht is important.

I didn't see this passage at all downplaying doctrine. It merely said that traditions are often empty, and liturgy can be equally so.

I do agree with you about the need for elders in ministry, but the pastors are not teenagers. They are, indeed, young, but it's not as if they are 17 or 18 themselves.

And I disagree with you here as well. Jesus Christ was the most revolutionary figure in history. When he was alive, he turned the area of Palestine on its ear. He invaded the temple and kicked out the moneychangers. He revolutionized the people's concept of God. He saw women as being more than mere property. He had the nerve to minister to Samaritans. And he died, rose again, and changed the entire world. He is still changing the entire world. That is revolutionary.

The Bible does indeed portray Christ as a revolutionary, and he revolutionizes lives every day (II Corinthians 5:17).

Can you at least see the Biblical principles which they are running their church by? Is it possible that it is a matter of perspecive instead of an "I'm right and they are wrong" mentality?

 

What I'm gleaning from this discussion is this:

1. Some types of alternative ministries are effective at reaching certain groups/types of people that more traditional ministries either can't or don't.

2. Since these alternative ministries methods differ from the methods of more traditional ministries, many of the more traditional ministries are highly critical of the alternative ministries, without themselves seemingly being able to provide or offer any effective alternatives.


From God's Word: I Cor. 9:19-23 (KJV):

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.


From Benjamin Franklin:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."


My question: If we've been unable or unwilling to reach them, why are many so quick to cast stones at those who at least try?

 

I think you summarize things nicely here.

Of course the critic might suggest that his/her preferred method is the one and only legitimate one.

I am thankful for such ministries as The Rock. They are reaching a subculture that has been ignored by much of the modern church.

 

After watching the video "The Rock" from their "Rock TV" link I think I found a quote that best describes the problem with this type of ministry.

It's ok to go out and reach people for Christ wherever they are at. However, Christ will cause people to become "new" creations, he will not just be one more "fun thing to do" on their night of partying with friends.

Someone else mentioned that there was "no condemnation" and said the Christ didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. And they are right, He did. But condemnation still comes to those who don't believe the gospel. The gospel will change a life, not merely become a part of the life you are already living. The gospel is more than "there is no condemnation."

We don't "DO" praise and worship, we Give it to a Lord worthy of that praise. Our praise should be pleasing and glorifying to Him. His Spirit will lead us to become separate from the world, not get lost among the crowds.

~Lorelei

 

You do if you are from that same man-centered, worthless mindset. These people aren't reaching anyone. They are only contributing to the glorification of man by robbing God of his glory.

Btw, Paul said that he acted a certain way to reach ALL men. These people are clearly acting in a way that pleases their flesh that might reach only a certain group.

Note the phrase on the opening page: this ain't your parent church (or whatever filth it says).

 

It would be futile to attempt to pin down a singular cause as to why twenty somethings are leaving the church, but I believe one of the biggest problems in the church today is lack of substance. At 28, I want sound doctrine and genuine, meaningful worship. I am not at all interested in mindless "I love you oh so, oh so, oh oh oh oh so much Jesus, my saviour" choruses repeated endlessly, and then finally one more time with real passion. The teaching in these kinds of churches typically mirrors the feelings centered worship, and I want nothing to do with it.


But then you get to a more conservative church and they have their own set of problems. Someteimes the congregation is made up of nothing more than a bunch of cliques, and the seating might as well be assigned, because if you pick the wrong spot, the guy who has been sitting there for the past 30 years will be looking at you sideways. These kinds of churches are often filled with hard liners looking to accuse anyone and everyone of heresy who might interpret the Bible a little differently. I belonged to a conservative Baptist church for several years that split over the literal/day-age theory interpretation of the Genesis creation account. The Body of Christ in America has got some serious issues today, and this is my biggest beef of all: It's like we're sitting under the bleachers playing jacks while the big game is happening on the field. There is a real spiritual war going on for the souls of the lost, and Christians are too willing to ignore this and focus on absurdities like how old the earth is. people in my age group see this kind of garbage going on and want no part of it.

Well that's enough stream of conscious rambling for now

 

Unless you've actually been to the church and seen God working in the lives of the students, you are hardly in the place to make such judgments.

 

Unless you are Gunther

Still waiting for those answers Gunther.

 

I decided to verify the facts of some of the critical statements made above.

The co-pastors ages (their birthdates are listed on the website) are 47 and 36. Hardly the teen-agers one entry would lead one to believe. I've seen a lot of 22 year-olds fresh from IFB Bible colleges head out to assume Assistant Pastorships or to start new churches. So these two aren't exactly the "novices" that the one entry would indicate.

Also, one entry would lead the reader to believe that the drawing/animation on the website's homepage is an actual depiction of where they meet. From the website, here's the reality:

http://www.rockthechurch.com/index.asp?id=26

It's a pretty staid-looking elementary school; I've driven by it.

 

In other words, that is the simplest way to avoid the issues.

Rest assured, I am as interested in the accurate exposition of God's word, God's glory and Christ-centered worship as you. Once again, you simply reveal your own spiritual arrogance to think that those who differ are somehow less concerned with God's glory. So it is the land of legalism (which comes in many, many forms).

 

If you were interested in those things, it would drive you away from the foolishness of "Rock the church".

Your charge of arrogance is completely worthless. As a christian, I am deemed arrogant by all other religions. As a conservative, I am arrogant for my narrow doctrine. Your label is worthless. What were you saying about dealing with the issues?

You can't even define legalism. How can I expect you to understand these issues? I can't. Legalism is trusting in your works for salvation.