Okay, this is not a Calv/Arm debate, so anyone wanting to turn it into that needs to go start their own thread. Secondly this is for particularly general Baptists, as I wanted to avoid the confusion that can sometimes arise when leadership comes around, so I would ask that the Moderators and Administration refrain from posting in this thread. In view is the phenomena we see in Forum Discussion where one thing is said yet something else entirely is what is being said. For example, we might consider Two Lips position on the "Perseverance of the Saints." Does Two Lips mean that Saints will persevere because God enables them to? Or because they have to? I ask that question just to give an example of the premise of the OP, though there are multiple issues we could discuss in Two Lips basic premises. So that's the gist of the OP. God bless.