Tyndale N.T. Keepin' It Simple

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    The KJV revisionists made unnecessary changes to William Tyndale's New Testament . Like those other MV's -- the Great Bible and the Bishop's Bible -- the King James 1611 took too many liberties with the text .

    T =Tyndale Bible & K = KJV

    Matthew

    2:10
    T -- they were marvellously glad
    K -- they rejoiced with exceeding great joy

    5:47
    T -- babble not much
    K -- use not vain repetitions

    15:26
    T -- It is not good
    K -- It is not meet

    18:3
    T -- except ye turn
    k -- except ye be converted

    23:15
    T -- to bring one into your belief
    K -- to make one proselyte

    23:63
    T -- I charge thee
    K -- I adjure thee

    Mark

    12:40
    T -- under colour of long praying
    K -- for a pretence make long prayer

    16:6
    T -- be not afraid
    K -- be not affrighted

    Luke

    18:30
    T -- much more
    K -- manifold more

    22:37
    T -- even with the wicked was he numbered
    K -- and he was reckoned among the transgressors

    23:32
    T -- evildoers
    K -- malefactors

    Acts

    12:4
    T -- caught
    K -- apprehended

    16:7
    T -- sought to go
    K -- assayed to go

    16:20
    T -- disturbing
    K -- exceedingly trouble

    16:33
    T -- washed their wounds
    k -- washed their stripes

    21:15
    T -- made ourselves ready
    K -- took our carriages

    21:21
    T -- live
    K -- walk

    27:7
    T -- the wind withstood us
    K -- the wind not suffering us

    28:2
    T -- the people of that country
    K -- the barbarous people

    28:4
    T -- the men of the country
    K -- the barbarians
     
  2. Logos1560

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    William Tyndale is referred to as the father of our English Bible. Even a KJV-only advocate has referred to William Tyndale as the "principal" or the "primary" translator of the KJV.

    A comparison of Tyndale's to the KJV does indicate that Tyndale's Bible is simpler, more up-to-date, or clearer than the KJV in at least some places.
     
  3. Rippon

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    Yeah , so much for the KJO theory that their pet was a once-and-done miracle . Isn't it ironic that huge swaths of the Tyndale Translation reads in a more contemporary way than the newer 1611 revision ( in its multiple forms ) does ?
     
  4. Logos1560

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    In his introduction to a modern-spelling edition of Tyndale's New Testament, David Daniell, who also wrote a biography of Tyndale's life, noted: "When James I gave his Bible revisers the huge Bishops' Bible as their foundation, which meant that the Vulgate-based Rheims version would be attractive to them, he ensured that a wash of Latinity would be spread over Tyndale's English. The result, and we must assume, the intention, was to create a safer distance between the Scriptures and the people. Though in the general working vocabulary there were more Latinate terms in use by 1611, Latin words and constructions have, as they had then, the ring of Establishment authority, which is not the same
    as the Koine Greek that Tyndale was translating for the first time" (p. xxiv).


    Daniell wrote: "For King James to lay down as the foundation of his new version the most Latinate of recent indigenous Bibles was unfortunate indeed, and destroyed the chance of the new version being in the best modern English" (p. xiii). Daniell pointed out: “Those scholars were tied by having, at the King’s command, to base their work on the ill-done, backward-looking, heavily Latinate Bishops’ Bible of 1568 partly because it had no marginal notes” (William Tyndale, p. 344). Daniell also observed: "Appeal to Latin, so characteristic of the Authorised Version, tends to flatten differences, and make one special kind of language for everything, something a little antiquated, a little removed, and feeling therefore, for the New Testament, rather artificially holy" (p. 139).
     
  5. Rippon

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    Logos : good stuff as always . A question for those who prefer the KJV -- since William Tyndale was translating from the Koine Greek ,( not Attic Greek ) and the KJV tried to employ some rather ornate language at times -- Is the KJV as faithful to the original as say the NLTse or some other more idiomatic version ?
     
  6. Logos1560

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    While the rest of the pre-1611 English Bibles often kept the rendering of Tyndale's, some of the differences in the KJV come from the KJV's following the rendering of the 1582 Rheims N. T.


    Luke 1:80 wilderness (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) deserts (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 6:49 fall of that house (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) ruin of that house (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 9:1 heal (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) cure (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 10:14 be easier (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) be more tolerable (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 12:26 remnant (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Geneva, Bishops’)
    other (Coverdale’s) rest (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 12:27 royalty (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) glory (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 12:27 clothed (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) arrayed (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 12:29 ask (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) seek (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 14:28 perform (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) finish (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 15:14 dearth (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) famine (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 19:4 wild fig (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) sycomore (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 19:21 strait (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Geneva, Bishops’)
    hard (Coverdale’s) austere (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 19:22 strait (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Geneva, Bishops’)
    hard (Coverdale’s) austere (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 19:23 vantage (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) usury (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 21:4 superfluity (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Geneva, Bishops’)
    excess (Coverdale’s) abundance (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 21:5 garnished (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) adorned (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 21:20 besieged (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) compassed (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 21:20 host (Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Bishops’)
    soldiers (Whittingham’s, Geneva) army (Rheims) armies (KJV)
    Luke 21:34 overcome (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Bishops’)
    overlade (Coverdale’s) oppressed (Geneva) overcharged (Rheims, KJV)

    Luke 22:30 seats (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) thrones (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 23:19 insurrection (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) sedition (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 23:32 evil doers (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) malefactors (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 23:39 evil doers (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) malefactors (Rheims, KJV)
    Luke 24:8 remnant (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Geneva, Bishops’)
    other (Coverdale’s) rest (Rheims, KJV)
    John 1:31 declared (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) manifested (Rheims) made manifest (KJV)
    John 2:11 shewed (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) manifested (Rheims, KJV)
    John 6:12 broken meat (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) fragments (Rheims, KJV)
    John 9:28 rated (Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Bishops’)
    checked (Whittingham’s, Geneva) reviled (Rheims, KJV)
    John 11:47 high priests (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) chief priests (Rheims, KJV)
    John 12:6 that which was given (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) that were put in (Rheims)
    what was put therein (KJV)
    John 14:22 shew thyself (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) manifest thyself (Rheims, KJV)
    John 17:6 declared (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) manifested (Rheims, KJV)
    John 18:30 evil doer (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) malefactor (Rheims, KJV)
    John 18:35 high priests (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) chief priests (Rheims, KJV)
    John 19:6 high priests (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) chief priests (Rheims, KJV)
    John 19:24 coat (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) vesture (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 1:26 counted (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) numbered (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 2:7 wondered all (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) were all amazed (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 5:2 being of counsel (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Geneva, Bishops’)
    knowing of it (Coverdale’s) being privy (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 6:2 meet (Tyndale’s to Geneva) good (Bishops’) reason (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 8:21 fellowship (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) lot (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 10:1 captain (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) centurion (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 10:22 captain (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) centurion (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 13:26 generation (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) stock (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 14:23 by election (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) [these 2 words omitted by Rheims, KJV]
    Acts 17:16 given to worshipping of images (Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, Great)
    subject to worship idols (Whittingham’s) subject to idolatry (Geneva)
    given to worshipping of idols (Bishops’) given to idolatry (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 17:19 Mars street (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s, Geneva)
    street of Mars (Bishops’) Areopagus (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 19:29 common hall (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Bishops’) open place (Coverdale’s)
    common place (Geneva) theatre (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 19:35 ceased (Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great) stilled (Coverdale’s) pacified (Bishops’)
    stayed (Whittingham’s, Geneva) appeased (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 19:40 jeopardy (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) danger (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 23:27 soldiers (Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, Great, Whittingham’s)
    garrison (Geneva) army (Bishops’, Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 24:4 courtesy (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) clemency (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 25:23 chief men (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) principal men (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 27:39 haven (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) creek (Rheims, KJV)
    Acts 28:15 waxed bold (Tyndale’s to Bishops’) took courage (Rheims, KJV)
     
  7. AntennaFarmer

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    This thread is an attack on the KJV.
     
  8. Rippon

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    Lower your antenae . This thread has largely been documenting the wording of the Tyndale Translation and the wording of the KJV revision . It has been observed that the Tyndale Translation seems to be clearer and sounds more contemporary . We're just reporting the facts Ma'am .
     
  9. AntennaFarmer

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    I know what you are doing- Stirring up trouble.
     
  10. Rippon

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    Who me ? Nope . Don't be so paranoid . If what Logos and I have posted are considered attacks on the KJV -- you are in need of seeing what really constitutes attacks . Peter Ruckman attacks all versions except the KJV with a vengeance for instance .

    You are free to prefer your KJV ( of whatever stripe it is ) . It is God's Word . But just be a level-headed person and acknowledge that God's Holy Word is not only in that 17th century British production .
     
  11. AntennaFarmer

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    I know you don't really care about the KJV.

    In your first line you made your intentions plain. You are tossing out some bait to try and get the strife rolling again.
     
  12. Logos1560

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    Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Ruckman attacks all versions made after 1611 with a vengeance.

    Perhaps surprisingly, Ruckman has recommended some of the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision and Luther's German Bible. Ruckman recommended Tyndale's. Ruckman also places several of the pre-1611 English Bibles and Luther's German Bible on his good tree of Bibles (Bible Babel, p. 82).

    Peter Ruckman wrote: "We will not condemn them [referring to Tyndale and Wycliffe, or the Geneva Bible]. They have substantially the same Greek and Hebrew text as the King James Bible" (Bible Babel, p. 2). Ruckman also stated: "I recommend Tyndale's version, the Great Bible, the Geneva Bible, Valera's Spanish version, Martin Luther's German version, and a number of others" (Scholarship Only Controversy, p. 1). Ruckman wrote: "There is nothing wrong with a missionary in Germany using Luther's version instead of the Authorized Version" (Bible Babel, p. 2).

    Peter Ruckman also commended the "genuine work of updating and revision" in Bishops', Matthew's, Coverdale's, Geneva, and Great Bibles (Differences in the KJV Editions, p. 5).

    This updating and revision that Ruckman commended in the earlier English Bibles involved the making of thousands of changes, alterations, or revisions. This updating and revision involves the same types of changes that later English translations from the same underlying original language texts have made in the KJV. Once this principle of the revision and updating of earlier translations is established as acceptable and valid, it seems hypocritical to claim that all such revision and updating is unacceptable later.


     
  13. Logos1560

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    Based on some of Tyndale's writings that I have read and based on what others have written about him, I would think that Tyndale will welcome the attempts of others to make better [improve] or to correct some of his translating.

    Also based on some of Tyndale's writings that I have read and based on what others have written about him, it would seem that Tyndale would disagree with at least a couple of the changes that the KJV translators made to his Bible translating.
     
  14. Rippon

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    Snips

    KJV at the top , and the Tyndale Translation below .

    Genesis 45:10 : ... and thou shalt be near unto me
    be by me

    Deut. 4:39 : ... consider it in thine heart
    turn it to thine heart

    Judges 19:22 : ... sons of Belial
    which were wicked
     
    #14 Rippon, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2008
  15. Logos1560

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    Matthew 26:27
    Drink of it every one (Tyndale's)
    Drink ye all of it (KJV)

    Mark 4:12
    lest at any time they should turn (Tyndale's)
    lest at any time they should be converted (KJV)

    Romans 8:16
    same Spirit (Tyndale's)
    Spirit itself (KJV)

    1 Cor. 13:13
    faith, hope, and love (Tyndale's)
    faith, hope, charity (KJV)

    Titus 1:8
    one that loveth goodness (Tyndale's)
    a lover of good men (KJV)

    Hebrews 4:8
    For if Joshua had given them rest (Tyndale's)
    For if Jesus had given them rest (KJV)

    2 Peter 1:4
    godly nature (Tyndale's)
    divine nature (KJV)

    2 John 10
    this learning (Tyndale's)
    this doctrine (KJV)

    Rev. 18:12
    ware (Tyndale's)
    merchandise (KJV)

    Rev. 18:13
    bodies (Tyndale's)
    slaves (KJV)

    Rev. 21:21
    every gate was of one pearl (Tyndale's)
    every several gate was of one pearl (KJV)
     
  16. Logos1560

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    In his introduction to his 1989 modern-spelling edition of the 1526 edition of Tyndale's New Testament, John Wesley Sawyer (a KJV-only advocate) wrote: "At times, it [referring to Tyndale's New Testament] even makes the reader of the twentieth century to grasp the meaning easier than the Authorized Version (1611)" (p. 9).
     
  17. robycop3

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    If THE TRUTH constitutes an attack upon the KJV, so be it. Personally, I have NEVER withheld telling the truth for fear of offending someone.
     
  18. Pastor_Bob

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    But, would he welcome replacing his readings with non-TR readings?
     
  19. Pastor_Bob

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    Perhaps not, but it seems like offending is your sole motivation at times. Whatever happened to "speaking the truth in love?" What about the fruit of the Spirit called "gentleness?" What about Proverbs 29:11?
     
  20. Logos1560

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    Along with the KJV, there are other English translations in print today that attempt to update and improve the renderings of Tyndale's without replacing them with non-TR readings.
     

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