U.S., Russia: Iraq had no WMDs

So What?

We had better have contingency plans to invade a lot of countries or the President would be guilty of gross dereliction of duty, 911 or no 911. :thumbs:

 

The answer to the question is that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God", man is basically born totally depraved, and becomes more depraved when in political power.

Bush acted true to human nature, and the Republicans and Democrats spoke in true accord with their natural depravity.

As a result, Bush and company has caused America to invade a country sovereign in its own right, deposed a ruler and caused or at least became instrumental to his demise, killed two of his sons, ruined and tore apart his his family, brought a whole country to its knees, polarized his own country, sent thousands of young men and women into harm's way, brought grief to thousands of American homes who lost their sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, nieces, nephews, cousins, friends, and neighbors, and grief to some non-American homes in other countries who also lost loved ones fighting under the American flag. All for non-existent WMD's, and perhaps a hidden, more sinister agenda.

In addition, Bush and company is about to cause, if not already here, economic chaos, runaway taxes, and other side effects of wartime economy, and bring it down on the heads of Americans, while failing to protect American borders from intrusion by illegals and actually fighting for and in behalf of these illegals.

Happy days. As Borat will say: I love Amerikaaaaa !!!

 

How come you forgot to include that he liberated millions of people from a brutal tyrannical dictator? Why are you so biased and partial in your reporting of the facts.

 

How come he has not gone after Kim the Joker of North Korea ? I suppose the North Koreans are extremely happy under him ? I suppose he is not a brutal, tyrannical dictator ?

Come on, PL.

Since when does the American Constitution mandate the President of the United States to see to it that "democracy" and "freedom" be installed on other sovereign countries, and invade these countries ? Where is the mandate for America to be the world police and serve as check and balance for dictatorships ?

We can't even police our own borders, good grief !

 

I don't know. But that's not the topic here. The topic here was your half truth.

Whether or not we should have been there, the fact is that millions have a chance at freedom that they would have not had otherwise. And that is positive. You should not tell half truths. They don't look good on you.

Again, not the issue. The issue I responded to was your lack of telling the whole truth. Whether or not we should have been there, the truth is that millions live in freedom at a relatively lost cost of life. WWII costs a great many more lives in pursuit of a similarly maniacal dictator.

Again, not the issue.

Please, focus on the issue at hand of your omitting part of the truth in order to slant a story towards your conclusion. That is not journalistic integrity. Tell the whole story.

 

WMD was only one factor in the justification for the war. The rest are clearly detailed in the Congressional resolution - the declaration of war - that we've been operating under. Yes, we certainly wanted to remove Saddam Hussein and we did accomplish that without too much difficulty. That went better than expected.

We certainly planned for the restoration of Iraq to go better - go faster - than it has. Plans rarely work as expected in war and restoration of order in a nation use to a dictatorship is real challenge. The other guys - the enemy - also has a plan. People in Iraq are used to the new power they have and many people don't yet have the confidence to support it. The enemy plays off that daily using the fear of terrorist acts to keep the people for joining together to drive out that cancer. We're working hard to help those that want to do so accomplish that goal so that there will be a solid stable government in the region.

Will it work? Only God knows for certain and only by Him can we accomplish it. It's never been easy and this time is no exception for certain.

What measures our worth is how persistent we are at adjusting and adapting to the challenges to reach the intended goal. Giving up and pointing fingers out our failures or short comings doesn't contribute an ounce towards those goals. Hindsight is always so much better than foresight. Walking away from it will certainly hand off a "victory" to our enemies. We've done that once to many times in my lifetime for me to support doing it again.

 

Great response!

 

Yeah, the Iraqis were forced to trade tyranny for terrorism. Some benefit to them, eh?

 

Germany declared war on these United States and were a direct threat to us as were their Japanese allies who attacked Pearl Harbor and also declared war on these United States.

 

We won a long time ago - removing Saddam Hussein and giving the Iraqis a representative democracy. Only the Iraqis can "win the peace". We can't do that for them.

 

No they weren't forced to trade tyranny for terrorism. Now they suffer under terrorism because they won't drive them out. They are not forced to trade terrorism though.

Seriously Ken, you say some really inane things sometimes. You give one pause to wonder if you are coherent at times.

As historians know, Germany was no real threat to the US. They were too tied up in Europe, in disastrous economic straits. We could have merely defended our homeland with relative ease. We did not have to go over there after them.

But none of that is the point. The point is that the loss of life in this war has been very small compared to WWII. Please address what I actually say, not what I don't.

 

As previously stated, the first part - the first victory or mission accomplished - went better than expected but the second part - what we're still challenged to win - is still in progress. You're correct that ulitmately Iraq must sustain the peace in their own nation. They're working very hard to accomplish that even though we find the progress frustrating at times. We're there to make sure it happens because the first victory won't be very lasting without the second.

 

I guess that long-range bomber that Nazi Germany was working on to drop an atomic bomb that Nazi Germany was working on over New York City was no real threat.

 

That's the point - we can't make sure it happens even if we foolishly continue Bush's Folly in Iraq for another decade.

 

You think Russia is just going to come out and say "Yep, we took them out because we did not want you to know what we gave them." You may trust Russia and think that they are our allies now, but I do not. Russia still has 5 equivalents of West Point that teaches their soldiers that war to the hilt against the USA will happen. Russia still spys on us as we do them. We best not let our guard down too much.

 

I don't buy into the comparison of Saddam Hussein with Adolph Hitler. Hussein did not eliminate 6 million Jews nor did he start a world war that consumed the lives of over fifty million people in total.

 

Neither do I.

 

Half-truth ?

1. Saddam Hussein was the recognized leader of Iraq, not anybody else. Him being despotic, tyrannical, and murderous does not becloud that full truth.
He was recognized by the US, the UN, and every country in the world, and every corrupt hypocrite leading these organizations recognized him as the leader. Therefore he is a sovereign ruler of a sovereign state.

2. Iraq was a member of the United Nations. This was a sovereign, free country with its own history, its own politics, its own body politic. Iraq was not at war with the US, the US never declared war on Iraq. That is another full truth.

3. Despite these two round full truths, this president sent American troops in harm's way, bombed Iraq, deposed a Sovereign ruler of a Sovereign country, indirectly contributed to his hanging, killed two of his sons, destroyed his family. That is a third full truth.

4. This undeclared war, started on so-called faulty intelligence, has caused the deaths of more than three thousand brave American men and women, the maiming of thousands others, is draining the US economy, that is a fourth full truth.

So George Bush "liberated" Iraqis from a murderous ruler ? Big deal.
That's what we like to look at now and console ourselves with because the whole awful truth, not half-truth as you like to call it, is, given the fact about the WMD'S at this point in time, we are an invading country, the Iraqis see us as invaders, and our hands are bloody with Saddam Hussein's blood, and his son's blood.

We have wronged a country, and we have wronged a man.

And my original premise was that Bush acted according to human nature. He is sinful just like the rest of us. His nature is corrupt just like the rest of us. He acted according to that nature, just like the rest of us may be prone to do given his situation.

I simply followed up on the result of that corrupt decision.

Any good he does to the Iraqis at this point still does not becloud or make right the wrong he had done: he had plunged this country into an unwanted, unwarranted war, he had been instrumental to the dethroning of a recognized, sovereign ruler, and we are all party to his wrongs, whether we like it or not.

 

Reading the neocon's essays and policy papers from the past one might get the impression that their goal is world military and economic domination. (their words) Is that an American value or virtue? What gives us the right to tell others how to live, and threaten them with certain destruction if they don't do things our way, especially after we have forced some of the world's worst tyrants on them ourselves? Saddam was another one of "our" creations, just as Bin Laden and Al Qeada was created by our own CIA and the Pakistani ISI who also helped to create the Taliban.

Now we're busy creating even more enemies to fight later on and making them more powerful and dangerous by funding known terrorist groups to destabilize Iran. Is that you're idea of the road to victory? Creating a never ending supply of enemies to fight? Seems more like insanity than a way to victory to me. Why do you suppose our "failures" always seem to benefit our big brother government/police state and the military/energy industrial complexes and never the people?

 

I agree that we can't "make" it happen except by the grace of God. We can apply the force with which we've been blessed by God to encourage the right change to happen in Iraq. We can foster, encourage, and support those in Iraq who want things to be truly be better. They are willing to fight and die to attain that. We've provided them an opportunity and now we need to stand by them. We need to stand firm in our resolve to bring about adequate change to such as state as is reasonable for our own interests - that which brought us there - and those of the people of Iraq. It doesn't have to be a "perfect" solution and it probably won't be. The worst "solution" - not a solution at all - would be to walk away and toss away the sacrifices already made by both America and Iraq.