Unbelievers in the Millenium?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by mountainrun, Nov 2, 2002.

  1. mountainrun

    mountainrun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob has stated that millions of unsaved will enter into the Kingdom.
    This is news to me. I thought that Jesus said that when He returned those not doing His will would be cut to pieces and assigned a place with the hypocrites.
    {Matthew 24}
    The Bible teachers I have studied say that the unbelievers will be removed from the earth at Jesus coming and only believers will enter into the Millenial Kingdom.

    Dr. Bob, do you have verses?

    MR
     
  2. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi MR,

    I think you're right! I reckon there are two possibilities about where the people come from. The first is that God refrains from killing the children at Christ's return, and these re-populate the earth when they get older:
    Alternatively, perhaps God will just create the people like he did in Eden. Yes, the millennium will be the time the Jews get their land, but God can make Jews out of rocks:
    Your friend and brother,

    Bartholomew
     
  3. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have seen the following passages used to support the view of unbelievers entering the millennium:

    Isaiah 14:1-2 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. [2] And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

    Zechariah 14:9-19 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.... [16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. [17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. [19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.... [36] Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

    Personally, I'm not convinced these speak of the "millennium", but if they do, they seem to speak of "heathens" entering it and living in it.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Remember, I am a philosophy professor so try to think things through logically as well as theo-logically.

    At the END of the millenium, there will be hundreds of millions of unsaved who will rebel against Jesus' rule, led by Satan who is released from the pit.

    Where did they come from?

    (1) Descendants of us who are in spiritual bodies (taken up at rapture) and are on the earth and New Jerusalem during the millenium? No, we will not be able to reproduce.

    (2) Descendants of folks saved in tribulation? No, since they are all killed for their faith

    (3) Descendents of folks who were not killed in the Tribulation (about 5% max when you do the math in Revelation - such as 1/3 killed from asteroid hit; 1/3 of those left killed by scorching sun; 1/3 of those left killed when water turns into blood). They will submit to Christ and reproduce. Them/their children will be those rebels.

    Another question -

    Who is Jesus "ruling over" in the Millenium? 2 choices

    (1) Saints. Hey, we will be there but we will all have the mind of Christ so he will not have to "rule" over us

    (2) Unsaved. And He will rule with a rod of iron.

    Just some thoughts. Will share other scriptures as time permits.
     
  5. mountainrun

    mountainrun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,
    Where do the rebels come from?
    They are born during the millenium.
    While none can enter it, those who are born during it will certainly have the free will to accept or reject Jesus.

    You say all the folks who are saved during the Trib will be killed for their faith.
    Who then are the "elect" for which Jesus says those days are to be shortened?

    These elect for whom Jesus cuts the days short will be the ones who enter into the Millenial Kingdom.
    The unbelievers left alive at the end of the Trib will have their own "rapture."
    They will be taken and the believers left per Matthew 24:40, a verse some mistakenly believe refers to the rapture. Just like in the days of Noah, it says, when the evil are destroyed and the righteous repopulate the world.

    I would also mention that you are in error concerning the New Jerusalem. It is not on the earth until the millenium is over and the judgement of unbelievers is completed. See Rev. 21:2.

    You say you will share other scriptures as time permits, yet have not yet given me any.
    Please post scriptures to support the statements you have already made.
    I understand making philosophical arguments but I would rather begin with some scriptures to base them on.

    MR

    [ November 03, 2002, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: mountainrun ]
     
  6. mountainrun

    mountainrun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob, do you wish to continue this discussion?

    MR
     
  7. Carly33

    Carly33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    As I understand it...those who will reign with Christ during the Millenium are the Tribulation Martyrs:"Rev 20:4 ....And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    Christ will rule 4 groups or classes of kingdom administrators:

    1...OT Saints--Isaiah 26;19, Daniel 12:1-2

    2...Apostles and Church---Matthew 19:28,29

    3...Tribulation Saints(martyrs)---see above

    4...Tribulation Believing Survivors---Matthew 25:34 They will enter kingdom in natural bodies, unressurected

    Will these last group reproduce...perhaps a generation of unbelievers....who will be deceived by satan. 1 Thousand years could produce millions of new people. Many of these descendants will remain unregenerated, will be able to sin. Reminiscent of Garden of Eden...Adam and Eve were not glorified but were unblemished as yet with sin, til satan deceived them, and they chose to disobey God, so it will be for these at the end of the Millenium.
     
  8. mountainrun

    mountainrun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    0
    Carly, I believe you are confusing millenial passages with heavenly passages.
    The only people who will be resurrected for the Millenial Kingdom are trib. martyrs.

    ==========
    Rev. 20:5. {The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.} This is the first resurrection.
    ==========

    You are correct, of course, that surviving believers will also enter into the kingdom.
    There is nothing to support unbelievers being there, indeed only verses to disprove Dr. Bob's philosphy can be found.

    MR

    MR

    [ November 09, 2002, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: mountainrun ]
     
  9. Carly33

    Carly33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    I won't be dogmatic about the OT saints being risen for the millenium but you will find that a good cross section of commentaries, study bibles will state that case.

    I don't feel its really beneficial or necessary for me to strive about it....but for sure we agree that the unsaved survivors of the trib. will enter the millenium.

    [ November 10, 2002, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Carly33 ]
     

Share This Page

Loading...