Under Grace/ lawless and ignorant?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. Iconoclast

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    To be under grace means that sin cannot have dominion over us because grace in Christ frees us from the condemnation of perfect Law-obedience in Adam. This is through our Lord’s perfect Law-keeping life and atoning death for law-breakers. You really cannot understand the cross without understanding the Law. Under grace means that God grants us justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ through His perfect atonement for sin and the imputation of His perfect righteousness as a gift. It also means that the new birth writes God’s Law upon our hearts so that we delight in it again (Jeremiah 31:31-34, 32:40; Romans 7:22). This “grace in which we stand” throughout the Christian’s walk impels and empowers the forgiven sinner to love God and keep His commandments without fear of condemnation. Under grace, the believer no longer finds obedience to God’s Law a condemning burden, but a joyful privilege of the saved under grace (Romans 3:24, 5:2, 5:15, 5:21, 6:14-15).

    The Christian lives under grace according to God’s Law so that sin no longer has dominion over him. Although the Christian still commits sins against God’s commandments while under grace, the power of sin, which is the condemnation of the law, is broken. Sanctification, then, is the daily exercise of saving faith in Christ, redeemed by His blood and covered with His righteousness, by which justifying faith we seek to keep the Law of God under grace. That is why Jesus said: “if you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” Faith working through love to God is the evidence of being under grace. And such faith always works.
     
  2. Iconoclast

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  3. Iconoclast

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  4. Iconoclast

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  5. menageriekeeper

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    From the first link:

    (for reference this quote comes from halfway through the first point 3 in the article (there are two point 3's in the article)

    Oh my what a sly twist. Christ said the law and prophets rest on "love your God and love your neighbor" Not, "love your God and love your neighbor" rests on the 10 Commandments.

    I'm not sure if you can see difference between the two, at your point in your walk with Christ, but I see it plainly. This one twist of scripture, right here, is the entire difference between my perspective and yours.

    With this twisting of the plain reading of the word, the author places the full burden of the Law, yes, the Mosaic Law whether he wants to describe as such or not, right back on the shoulders of the believer. Right back in the place from which Christ removed it.
     
  6. Iconoclast

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    let me re-read it......I am not sure if there is any twist.....let me look
     
  7. preacher4truth

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    Like I said, he twisted my words and took them out of context, which is nothing. But he does the same with the Scriptures, which is everything.

    He's a Judaizer. A neo-Judaizer under the curse of the law on an agenda here to propagate his false teaching. Don't be fooled. He's trolling for a proselyte. I think everyone on here is smart enough to not bite on his bait. Not to mention his breaking the 9th commandment by falsely quoting me out of context to slander, and lying, or what we know as bearing false witness.

    Also, notice his name shows why he is here: Iconoclast: 1: a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions. This is his sole reason for being here. :smilewinkgrin:


    He's no Baptist.



    :jesus:
     
    #7 preacher4truth, Dec 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2010
  8. Iconoclast

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    But in that part of his Epistle which deals directly with the details of Christian conduct his reference to at least four of the commandments is even more illuminating. ‘Owe no man anything, but to love one another. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself’ (Romans 13:8, 9). What is of particular interest to us at present is to note that Paul regards these precepts of the decalogue, four of which he quotes, as relevant to the behaviour which exemplifies the Christian vocation. The emphasis falls upon the fact that love fulfils them and that they are summed up, or summarized, in the word, ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself’. But, if love fulfils them, we must still bear in mind that they are fulfilled; and if they are fulfilled they exist as precepts which call for fulfilment: and if they are summarized in one word, the summary does not obliterate or abrogate the expansion of which it is a summary. It is futile to try to escape the underlying assumption of Paul’s thought, that the concrete precepts of the decalogue have relevance to the believer as the criteria of that behaviour which love dictates. And it is all the more significant that these criteria should have been enunciated by the apostle in a context where the accent falls upon love itself: ‘Owe no man anything, but to love one another’ (verse 8).

    I saw this under point 3.......this seems clear. I think you are looking somewhere else.
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    I do not see the quote, and by what you quote the conclusion does not follow?
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    Jesus summed up the two tablets of the law.Love to God,Love to neighbor.
    first table,second table. there is no twist of anything here?
     
  11. menageriekeeper

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    The twist, Icon, is that Christ said the Law hinges on "love thy God and love they neighbor".

    The author suggests that "love thy God and love thy neighbor" hinges on the 10 Commandments.

    This idea give the 10 Commandments power over Christ rather than Christ holding the authority over the 10 C's.

    Sometimes a visual helps. In your kitchen you have cabinets. Are the doors hinged to the cabinets? Or are the cabinets hinged to the doors?

    You say, what difference does it make? Well it makes a lot of difference. Those door would be worthless without the cabinets they hang upon. On the other hand, the cabinets work just fine without the doors. See the difference?
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    Nobody believes that.That is a dead end.
     
  13. menageriekeeper

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    If the author doesn't believe it, why did he write it? What does he mean by "It is not, however, love abstracted from law but love operating under the authority and sanctity of that commandment" if not that the reason for love is the commandment, rather than the commandment being the result of love?
     
  14. Alive in Christ

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    Whats going on here is "double talk".


    We are free from the law...sort of.

    But *sort of* not.

    Grace has set us free.....but it kinda hasnt.

    We are *kinda* free from the Law...as long as we "keep" it.

    Kinda.


    The truth is that we are totally, and completely FREED from the Law.

    We are DEAD to it...because we have been "married" to another...grace.


    That is the primary purpose of the Law right there. To condemn us, and make clear that we need mercy. Grace. Christ!

    We are in need of...

    God’s Righteousness Through Faith......

     
  15. Alive in Christ

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    Whats going on here???

    Its like Iconoclast is having a conversation with himself.

    In post #2 he appears to ask himself a question, and then he aswers it in the same post...as if someone else asked the question...but nobody did.


    ????????????????????
     
  16. Alive in Christ

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    ...and then in post 3 he is answering his own questions again.

    None of the other posters asked those questions???
     
  17. Amy.G

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    That is my assessment as well.
     
  18. Iconoclast

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    Grace sets us free from the penalty of the broken law.

    We are not free to be law less.

    We are free to serve God and neighbor by keeping the 10 commandments.
     
  19. Alive in Christ

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    What you are saying is not true.

    Here is the word of God...(bolding mine)

    How can you say that we are under something that the scriptures say Christ has redeemed us from, and God referes to as a curse?


    That is saying that you must be sinlessly perfect to be justified under the law.

    Are you perfect, all the time?.



    The Changeless Promise



    I dont know how God can make it any clearer.

    The Law was out tutor, and we are no...longer...under...that...tutor.

    These passages make crystal clear that the law serves to CONDEMN us, so that we will do the only thing we can do and flee to the mercy and GRACE of God.
     
  20. preacher4truth

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    Alive in Christ,

    You are battling against the neo-judaizer.

    Even the definition of his name he uses gives him away.

    That, plus the fact he talks of law law law law law law law law law law law then throws grace in there, to deceive and stay "balanced."

    But anyhow, continue to expose his error, as you do, and you will do well.

    - Blessings
     

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