Understanding faith and works....

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by jcf, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. jcf

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    Understanding Faith and works
    by John C. Ferreira

    Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

    Titus tells us that we are not saved by our own works that we have done.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Ephesians is telling us that we are saved through faith and that faith is a gift of God.

    James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

    Now James is telling us that faith alone won't save us.

    There sure seems to be a lot of contradictions going on here.

    To understand what God is telling us here is very simple.

    Faith is that which we believe. The faith that saves is the faith or knowledge that Christ possesses. He will give it to us freely when we seek Him for it. This knowledge will become our knowledge when we believe it.

    Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    Isaiah 53:11 He shall see the travail of His soul, and be satisfied, by His knowledge My righteous Servant (Jesus) shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities.

    Faith is what Jesus possessed between His ears, it's what He knows and believes is Jesus' faith.

    Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

    If I ask you what you believe, you will begin to express your faith in how you understand and believe something. How we live our lives is an expression of our faith. We are to live by Jesus' faith or by His knowledge.

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Has we seek God for His knowledge the Holy Spirit will give it to us through the word and through daily convictions. This knowledge becomes our faith. If we don't apply or obey what God gives us our faith is dead. The application and obedience of faith in our lives is our works.

    Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

    If I tell you cocaine will kill you and you go out and use cocaine anyway and die, the knowledge I gave you didn't mean much. God gives us knowledge that makes us wise unto salvation.

    2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    If we don't obey what God gives us through this faith/knowledge which is in Jesus then what God gave us is dead.

    James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    What our works do is they perfect or complete our faith. In other words, our obedience to the knowledge that God is giving us shows that we really do believe, our works of obedience complete our faith.

    James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

    The KJV uses the word, perfect, but complete can also be used.

    James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

    To have knowledge and do nothing with it is worthless. So a man is justified by works and not faith only, in other words, a man is justified by obedience to what God is giving him.

    Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    What are we getting when we're hearing from God through His word and through His Spirit's daily conviction? We're getting knowledge for living holy and godly lives.

    2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Prove yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? unless indeed you are disqualified.

    2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.

    We walk by the faith, that which we believe, that which God has given us, not by what we see outwardly for what we see outwardly may contradict our faith.

    James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

    What does it profit to have knowledge if you're not going to apply it. Can having knowledge save you?

    Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, `Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'

    Man shall live by the knowledge God gives him.

    This knowledge is freely given to us by God to have and obey.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    [ February 20, 2005, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: jcf ]
     
  2. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Very good JCF...what I get from that is that Godly works IS faith...and that knowledge is vain and useless unless acted upon.

    Greg Sr.
     
  3. jcf

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    Amen and Amen!!!

    Also, it's not just any knowledge, it has to be God's knowledge that we act on, not our own.

    Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
     
  4. D28guy

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    Saving faith will have fruit. There will be evidence that the faith is not simply intellectual ascent.

    Its important that we not turn this into a false gospel however.

    The testimony of God is that He takes it upon Himself to justify His children because we are completly unable to accomplish it ourselves.

    He justifies us through faith in Jesus Christ. Faith...and thats faith alone...is how we are justified. The works are the result of justification, but they play no part in our attaining justification.

    "It is by grace that you are saved, though faith. And that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God created beforehand that we should walk in them"

    Notice...the "created in Christ Jesus" part is an accomplished fact before the "for good works" part.

    That may not seem all that important, but it actually is. Confusing that part can make the difference between heaven and hell.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  5. jcf

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  6. D28guy

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    jcf,

    Thats right.

    His part is to become a man, live sinless, allow all of our sins to be placed on Himself, take our sentance of death upon Himself, proclaim our sin debt "paid in full", then rise from the dead for our justification...offering eternal life to the "whosoeverwills".

    Our part is to embrace Christ through faith alone and be born of the Spirit.

    "He made Him who knew no sin, to become sin, so that we might become the rightiousness of God in Him"

    "He was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, the chastisment for our peace was upon Him. And by His stripes we are healed."

    "For it is by grace that you are saved, though faith. And that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast"

    "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. In whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarentee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"

    Let God be praised forevermore!!!!

    Thank God that He's offered such wonderful provision, and that He allowed me to take Him up on His offer to "taste and see, that the Lord is good."

    His indwelling Holy Spirit is so good its beyond comprehension!

    Mike
     
  7. jcf

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  8. D28guy

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    jcf,

    Maybe you are not articulating your belief well, but it sounds like you are denying that our sins were placed upon Christ, so that He could take our death sentance for us...but rather that the "sin" was merely that Christ was separated from God.

    If so, you are grieviously in error...

    "He made Him who knew no sin, to become sin, so that we might become the rightiousness of God in Him"

    "He was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, the chastisment for our peace was upon Him. And by His stripes we are healed."

    "And the Lord has layed upn Him the iniquity of us all"


    Mike
     
  9. BobRyan

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    This is an interesting turn of a phrase.

    In fact Jesus did NOT say "My God My God why have I FORSAKEN YOU" as your argument supposes.

    Neither does 2Cor 5 say "Jesus MADE HIMSELF to be sin in our behalf"

    Your idea that HE SINNED BY separating HIMSELF is not supported in all of scripture.

    The Bible clearly says that HE (God the Father )placed on HIM (God the Son - in Jesus Christ) the sins of us all!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. jcf

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    This is an interesting turn of a phrase.

    In fact Jesus did NOT say "My God My God why have I FORSAKEN YOU" as your argument supposes.

    Neither does 2Cor 5 say "Jesus MADE HIMSELF to be sin in our behalf"

    Your idea that HE SINNED BY separating HIMSELF is not supported in all of scripture.

    The Bible clearly says that HE (God the Father )placed on HIM (God the Son - in Jesus Christ) the sins of us all!

    In Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not saying Jesus sinned by separating Himself. I'm saying separation is sin. Sin is a condition, we are sin because we have not the Spirit of God. Jesus became sin when He and His Father became separated for that time when Jesus was forsaken.

    2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

    The warth of God is revealed in the fact that we are separated from Him, we are spiritually dead.

    John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''

    The wrath of God abides on him/us from Adam until now. Adam died (spiritually) so we're all dead (spiritually).

    It's through the Spirit of Christ that we are reunited with the Father or made alive unto God.

    When God gives us up or forsakes us His wrath is being administered.

    Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    Romans 1:24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:

    God's warth was upon Jesus when God forsook Him.

    Adam is sin, red, dust, natural (spiritual death). Jesus was not until God forsook Him and He became sin, dust (spiritual death), the wrath of God for sins of the world.

    Psalms 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

    The beatings we gave to the Son of God will heal us when we realize we did this to the Son of God and because of God's love for us He did not destroy us all.

    Acts 2:36-37 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    This same fallen mindset that crusified Jesus is all of us. What shall we do?

    Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    [ February 22, 2005, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: jcf ]
     

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