Understanding Universalism

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Bro Tony, Sep 8, 2004.

  1. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    This subject came up in another thread about Calvinism/Arminianism. It has been espoused by Me2 the teaching of "Christian Universalism". I have stated in the past that I do not agree with the above view, but I would like to understand it. Please everyone feel free to add to the discussion.

    Bro Tony
    Here are the questions that led to this new thread.

    Bro Tony
     
  2. Marcia

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    Wonder if any of the universalists at the BB will answer? :confused:

    I would like to see their scriptural support for their answers to the above questions. So universalists, speak up! We await! [​IMG]
     
  3. Me2

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    Bro Tony,


    the next age will take place on the earth and in the spirit realm.
    judgement takes place against all unrighteousness and righteousness alike. both judgements destroying the physical and spiritual and rebuilding again both the physical and spiritual into new creations.

    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

    the two judgements concerns those who live by the law of moses and the law of the spirit. the first law destroys all unrighteousness and the second law rebuilds everything by the addition and saturation of righteousness.

    all creation. physical and spiritual is judged, destroyed, and rebuilt.


    this is the second of two judgements. all unrighteousness (all creation) after being judged by the law (of moses). everything is delivered into death. there begins the resurrection or process of salvation by the GWT judgement. the righteousness of christ is given to all creation and the judgement concerning the law of the spirit begins.

    the lake of fire is not an enemy of Christ. it is a tool whereas all unrighteous works are burned away by the addition of truth via grace by faith.

    whenever all remnants of the power of death is removed or covered over by the righteousness of Christ.
    then can be said with accompanying evidence. "death where is thy sting".
    death must be removed entirely from all of creation. everything created was placed in adam.
    everything is removed from death and placed into Christ. (even death and hell itself.)

    hell death and the sea are labels describing powers or realms of unrighteousness. the have lords over each. the devil, antichrist and false prophet.
    we could say they are lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life. all "label" used by various authors of the bible to give insight towards these enemies. they are spiritual influences within man.
    we are the sons of the devil.
    we are the antichrist.
    we are the false prophets.

    and as we live by unrighteousness. we hold spiritual as well as attitudinal prespectives describing our mode by which we operate. If we operate under unrighteousness. we are motivated by the flesh, or the lust of our eyes or the pride of the devil.
    we live and have our being in death, and hell, and the sea. as opposed to having our being in the kingdom og Christ and of God. we are physically alive, yet spiritually dead towards a relationship towards other men, christ and his father.

    all men enter the influence of self as the law of moses destroys the works of unrighteousness.
    in this age as the bride is being identified and resurrected from death.
    they all enter into these realms temporarily until their time is cut short and God shows them mercy.
    others not identified as being a member of the bride remain there and become hardened for the purposes of fulfilling other tasks within the will of God.
    all men and spirits stand before the judgements of God. before the law of moses and the law of the spirit

    your question concerning those who stay there is not complicated to answer. God has chosen some as reprobates. vessels of wrath to perform a specific task. one in which incompasses ages. take for instance the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. the scriptures say that it will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come. frankly meaning that they are held in a state of unbelief or reprobation in this age and the age to come. they are serving as examples in the age to come.
    as the elect serve to teach truth and goodness. the reprobate serve to teach error and evil. for the purposes of teaching everyone of the knowledge of Good and evil in the age to come. yet the reprobates term in "hell" and "death" and the
    "sea" (manmade doctrines) is held in place by god himself. It is God who sends the dillusion or lie...remember?

    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    but alas all enemies of unrighteousness will be emptied out of these domains and judged as every man and every spirit will be. and placed into the judgement of the law of the spirit. meaning the addition of the righteousness of Christ and the "burning away" of the works of unrighteousness in the lake of fire.

    satan is a created being. he has the same father and creator. satan nor angels are fallen. they are made evil to fulfill the will of God.
    they still serve the same lord. they still exists under his domain. they will all be judged equally unders the same laws and judgements.

    Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

    1Co 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; hen he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    put down all authorities. this means be judged and placed in Christ or covered over by Christ Righteousness. subdued..all enemies.

    Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    satan and his angels are creatures...at this point everything is subdue, covered over by righteousness and made into a new creature. all unrighteousness has become righteous.

    Jesus blood covers all unrighteousness. jesus righteousness covers all of Gods creation.

    Me2
     
  4. A_Christian

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    Me2:

    Thank you for the information. Do you believe this?
    You may wish to consider that your logic seens to rest with some New Testament verses; however, we have the entire Bible to study. Each book relies on information contained in the rest. God isn't the author of corruption. GOD didn't create Lucifer to sin. GOD created Lucifer and allowed him to invent sin. Read again Isiah 14:12-15. Yes, GOD is writing to the king of Babylon but here we have a literal metaphor. GOD is drawing a comparison of one with another---one event to another, in the perfect way that only GOD can do it.
     
  5. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    Me2,

    Thank you for your answers. I must say that I find your biblical exegesis very interesting. Your view is completely contrary to what I believe the Bible teaches. I believe you have to read alot into the Scriptures to come up with what you believe. We stand in complete disagreement with each other, but I do appreciate you answering the questions I posted.

    Bro Tony
     
  6. Me2

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    A_Christian,

    God created everything.
    both Good and evil.

    Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    It is God who determines who will receive what, not Satan. God is in control of satan as he is over mankind 100%. It is God who is sovereign. Not satan

    everything is designed and follow Gods will. Both Good and Evil..
    He causes everything to happen although he uses evil agents and messengers to do his bidding

    Satan didnt fall from a state of perfection nor did his angels. He was created from the beginning to be evil.

    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

    God created evil...God created Satan from the beginning a liar, a murderer.. never abiding in the truth..

    Rev 12:9 ...that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,
    Joh 8:44 ...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar.

    Satan as well as man do not have "free will" to choose what they will apart from the design of Gods will.

    God wills everything to occur as it does both to destroy and to create.
    He send messengers of both good and evil to man.

    Satan doesnt invent nor create anything new apart from the predeterminations of his creator.

    and finally isaiah and ezekial are speaking to men..not the spirit called satan. if anything metaphorical could be drawn from these scriptures they are relating to the carnal spirit within these men. (the "antichrist" spirit or the "son of satan" within them). c'mon.a literal metaphore? maybe to a "carnal babe" [​IMG]

    so that if God created satan from the beginning evil. then how about angels? are they fallen, or created to serve as evil agents "in the service of satan"?

    God is completely sovereign over his entire creation. which includes satan with the creatures that serve him.

    Me2
     
  7. Me2

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    Bro Tony,

    Disagree as you might. but if it is questions you seek answers for.

    heres a pretty smart fella with his own website. I havent noticed any differences with his interpretations and mine and he is very indepth with his answers.

    Got questions about Christian universalists...click Here

    there will always be TWO interpretations. [​IMG]

    the true christians and the carnal christians..of which as we both know there are two types of "christians".


    Me2
     
  8. A_Christian

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    My suggestion to you is that you read and study the entire book of Job as a starter. GOD is in control.
    One might say that the "buck stops here." That in no way means that GOD invented evil and that GOD causes evil. If anything GOD allows evil to happen.
    Read the book of Job...
     
  9. Me2

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    A_Christian,

    Do you realize nothing was created when God predestined the lives and future of his creation.

    100s of billions of lives interracting with each other. good and evil events occurring over 1000s of years (possibly millions of years) and God wasnt asking satan for advise while PLANNING HIS CREATION.

    Was satan there? Think not...

    satan wasnt created yet

    which means all events predetermined to occur was planned without the knowledge of satans presence.

    think about this..what exactly does satan control?

    did satan cause the flood? which killed possibly millions, if not billions of humans within a single event?

    how about weather? plagues? famines? swarms of insects, birds, viruses?..is God or satan the source of these events against mankind?

    If satan is to be studied. please start with his SPECIFIC function. which is "the accusor of the (christian) brothers". a liar, a murderer against those seeking the truth(s) of God.

    Job...hhmm.. ok, Ill bite. try this...

    Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
    Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

    Job is firmly addressing his wife for not realizing that good as well as evil comes from the creator.

    Me2
     

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