Unfair to Bush and $90 a barrel oil

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by ASLANSPAL, Aug 12, 2005.

  1. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL
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    Get ready for the spin to come ...$90 dollar
    a barrel oil then we have matched the inflationary
    price of 1980...so we are actually going to enable
    bush to let it defy gravity in a free-fall climb. ;)

    This is for certain one area bush has been an abysmal flip flopper..."need to jawbone the Saudis
    to bring the price down" 1999 debate.

    Now the unfair part a quote from his 1978 congressional campaign.

    There's no such thing as being too closely aligned with the oil industry in West Texas.
    -- In 1978, when he was running for U.S. Congress, Time Magazine, Jul. 3, 2000

    Now that was a long time ago and surely he would'nt be delivering hyperprofits to big oil ..surely. ;)
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
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    The price of oil is set on the Nymex. The president of the United States sure doesn't set it.
     
  3. billwald

    billwald
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    No one knows how much the average American is willing to pay for gas. When we find out the price will level off.
     
  4. KenH

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    The price will level off when supply and demand are in equilibrium, regardless of how much the average American is willing to pay for gasoline.

    And I will go ahead and post the following:

    There is no reason to blame the oil companies. The prices of oil and gasoline and heating oil are driven by trades on the Nymex - http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?c=energy.

    As someone who works in crude oil accounting for an international integrated oil company it is my opinion that this huge run up in price is being driven by speculators on the Nymex, not by companies buying crude oil to run in refineries. Every time a Middle East sheik sneezes the speculators jump in and buy oil and gasoline futures and push up the price. In my opinion, if the speculators weren't involved and oil was only being traded by companies that use it then the price would be about $22/bbl. lower at around $45/bbl. and gasoline prices would be about $0.52/gal. lower.

    The other problem we have is on the product side in that we haven't built a new refinery in the U.S. in 30 years and companies are running older refineries as hard as they can at the moment. Yes, refineries have been upgraded over the years but when you run equipment all out for too long it eventually starts to have mechanical difficulties. Thus, we see several refineries having operating problems lately. Even if we have an ample supply of oil there are still only so many refineries to turn it into gasoline. And the EPA restrictions on the composition of gasoline make it difficult to import gasoline from other countries.

    And before anyone slams oil companies for making really good profits at the moment, you ought to look back at what happened when the oil price crashed in the mid-1980s and again in the late 1990s. I have seen losses that would knock the socks right off of ya. I thank God that I was able to remain gainfully employed with the same oil company during those horrible oil patch economic crashes. So pleas excuse me if I enjoy seeing the company I work for enjoying some prosperity for a while. I've been through the hard times and I am now enjoying the good times while they last. And considering how volatile the oil industry is I know things can turn around very quickly.

    There may indeed be a speculative bubble in the oil market on the Nymex like the bubble on the NASDAQ that popped in 2000. If it pops I wouldn't be surprised to see a rapid drop in the price of oil and its related products as the speculators fall all over each other heading for the exits.
     
  5. ASLANSPAL

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    KenH that is a bunch of talk when in fact leaders
    with a bully pulpit can and do make things happen
    you are letting bush off the hook ..when with his
    own words he did not let Clinton off the hook
    when a barrell of oil was heading to 15 dollar
    a barrell...again bush said this ..his very
    own words he beleives in strongly.

    Technically he does not set it but all it takes
    is pressure on the Saudis and Bush has failed
    miserablely and one of his worst flip flops and
    hypocrisys I have ever seen...again listen to bush
    in 1999.

    Mr. Bush was critical of Al Gore in the 2000 campaign for being part of “the administration that's been in charge” while the “price of gasoline has gone steadily upward.” In December 1999, in the first Republican primary debate, Mr. Bush said President Clinton “must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices.”

    As gas topped a record level of $50 a barrel this week, Mr. Bush has shown no propensity to personally pressure, or “jawbone,” Mideast oil producers to increase output.

    So KenH apparently their is a double standard
    bush complaining and suggesting using the bully
    pulpit ..which actually is the right answer and
    ask the Saudis for relief...but bush for some
    mysterious reason once elected backed off from
    that...and its a mystery why ..but to go on
    and keep parroting that he cannot do nothing
    is where we disagree..bush has failed badly
    on this issue ..when he could have had a handle
    on it a long time ago...still makes you think
    about his quote in 1978 though when he said.

    There's no such thing as being too closely aligned with the oil industry in West Texas.
    -- In 1978, when he was running for U.S. Congress, Time Magazine, Jul. 3, 2000
     
  6. poncho

    poncho
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    An American Bilderberger expressed concern over the skyrocketing price of oil. One oil industry insider at the meeting remarked that growth is not possible without energy and that, according to all indicators, the world's energy supply is coming to an end much faster than the world leaders have anticipated. According to sources, Bilderbergers estimate the extractable world's oil supply to be at a maximum of 35 years under current economic development and population. However, one of the representatives of an oil cartel remarked that we must factor into the equation, both the population explosion and economic growth and demand for oil in China and India. Under the revised conditions, there is apparently only enough oil to last for 20 years. No oil spells the end of the world's financial system. So much has already been acknowledged by The Wall Street Journal and the Financial Times, two periodicals who are regularly present at the annual Bilderberg conference.

    Conclusion: Expect a severe downturn in the world's economy over the next two years as Bilderbergers try to safeguard the remaining oil supply by taking money out of people's hands. In a recession or, at worst, a depression, the population will be forced to dramatically cut down their spending habits, thus ensuring a longer supply of oil to the world's rich as they try to figure out what to do.

    During the afternoon cocktail, European Bilderberger noted that there is no plausible alternative to hydrocarbon energy. One American insider stated that currently the world uses between four and six barrels of oil for every new barrel it finds and that the prospects for a short-term breakthrough are slim, at best.

    Someone asked for an estimate of the world´s accessible conventional oil supply. The amount was quoted at approximately one trillion barrels. As a side note of interest, the planet consumes a billion barrels of oil every 11.5 days.

    Another Bilderberger asked about hydrogen alternative to the oil supply. The US government official agreed, gloomily, that hydrogen salvation to the world´s imminent energy crisis is a fantasy.

    This confirms public statement made in 2003 by HIS, the world´s most respected consulting firm cataloguing oil reserves and discoveries, that for the first time since the 1920s there was not a single discovery of an oil field in excess of 500 million barrels.

    The oil industry at the 2005 Bilderberg conference was represented by John Browne, BP´s chief executive officer; John Kerr, director Royal Dutch Shell; Peter D. Sutherland, BP chairman and Jeroen van der Veer, chairman of the Committee of Managing Directors of Royal Dutch Shell.

    It should be remembered that in late 2003, oil giant Royal Dutch Shell, announced that it had overstated its reserved by as much as 20 percent. Queen Beatrix of Holland, Royal Dutch Shell´s principal shareholder is a full-fledged member of the Bilderbergers. Her father, prince Bernhard was one of the founders of the group back in 1954. The Los Angeles Times reported that "For petroleum firms, reserves amount to nothing less than ´the value of the company.'" In fact, Shell cut its reserve estimates not once, but three times, prompting the resignation of its co-chairman. At Rottach-Egern, in May 2005, industry's top executives tried to figure out how to keep the truth about diminishing oil reserves from reaching the public. Public knowledge of the diminishing reserves directly translates into lower share prices, which could destroy financial markets, leading to a collapse of the world economy

    <snip>

    A US law, called the Logan Act, states explicitly that it is against the law for federal officials to attend secret meetings with private citizens to develop public policies. Although Bilderberg 2005 was missing one of its luminaries, US State Department official John Bolton who was testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the American government was well represented in Rottach-Egern by Alan Hubbard, assistant to the president for economic policy and director of the National Economic Council; William Luti, deputy under secretary of defence; James Wolfensohn, outgoing president of the World Bank and Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of state, an ideologue of the Iraq war and incoming president of the World Bank. By attending Bilderberg 2005 meeting, these people are breaking federal laws of the United States.


    SOURCE
     
  7. Bro. James

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    The rich get richer and the poor get poorer--and the beat goes on.

    All of us who drive--nationwide--truckers, everybody--let's stop driving for two days and see what happens to the supply of oil.
    A little solidarity may get the "cartel's" attention--maybe not. We all need a couple of days off anyway. Let's go for it.

    Cartel: a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition or fix prices. That is what we are dealing with--Bubba, and it takes solidarity to overcome it.

    Bro. James

    [ August 13, 2005, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Bro. James ]
     
  8. billwald

    billwald
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    We all quit driving for 2 days and make up for it on the third. When I was driving a '74 Chev p/u I was getting 10 miles for a dollar. Now days we mostly drive a Toyota and gas will have to go over $3.50 before it costs 10 miles for a dollar and wages have gone up 50%. In other words, gas is cheap in terms of work hours per gal.
     
  9. KenH

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    Yeah, your right, ASLANSPAL. My 27 years of experience in accounting for crude oil purchases and movements doesn't mean I have any idea what is going on. [​IMG]
     
  10. KenH

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    Yeah, we've been hearing about the end of oil for over a hundred years now.

    The oil company I work for has a very successful exploration program and we are finding lots of oil offshore Malaysia, offshore Congo, and in the Gulf of Mexico. We are about to have a huge ramp up in production during the next few years. We already have enough reserves to get me to my anticipated retirement date on June 1, 2023. And we're not through by any means in searching and finding more oil.
     
  11. ASLANSPAL

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    Your company funds? or do I fund the drilling through government subsidies. I actually worked
    in the Oil fields KenH and knew of the culture
    in the 70's and 80's a lot good people mostly
    men and very few women but a whole lot of waste
    as well. Boom meant big spending and big spenders
    bust meant waiting for the next boom if you survive the bust ..like I said a lot of wasteful
    spending habits.

    waste
     
  12. KenH

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    I see no reason for subsidies for any company. I see that as a type of welfare. Tax breaks I can go along with as I like to see people and companies keep more of their own money, but I don't approve of any form of welfare.
     
  13. KenH

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    I don't work in the tax department. I hope we get tax breaks as I like to see companies(and individuals) keep more of their own money. If we receive any subsidies(I haven't heard of any) they would be very, very miniscule compared to the cost of exploration and production in the deep water areas of the world.
     
  14. KenH

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    I worked in a gas plant for one summer and in the oil field for two summers while in college. My dad worked for an oil company for over thirty years. I know all about manual labor in the hot southeast Texas summer sun.

    I am glad we have something in common in our work experiences. [​IMG]
     
  15. Daisy

    Daisy
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    What's a "Bilderberger "?
     
  16. Ps104_33

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    ASLANPAL lives in a utopian socialist world which he and other liberals seem to have created in their minds. Excuse me for being stupid.
    BUT IT IS A SUPPLY AND DEMAND PROBLEM! nothing more.
     
  17. Ps104_33

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    Much of the price increase is being driven by market fundamentals.(Something liberals have a hard time comprehending) Underestimated demand has been a widespread and consistent problem in developing countries, such as India, China, and Brazil, as well as the United States. Estimates are that this demand growth will continue, albeit at a somewhat lower rate. On the supply side, the previous decade of low prices resulted in general underinvestment in oil production. Investment levels continue to be low due to uncertainty over whether the high prices will continue.

    Compounding the impacts of a tight supply/demand picture are changes in stock levels, spare capacity, the decline of the dollar, changes in market structure, and geopolitical events that reduce the flexibility of the market to respond in a timely manner.
    source

    What is ASLANPAL'S simplistic explanation? Blame George Bush, Dick Cheney and Halliburton. Boy, if GW is as stupid as the liberals say he is, its amazing how much power he has on the world economy. As far as comments made concerning the ability of the president to manipulate oil prices
    during election campaigns, I dont pay any attention to them whether they come from the mouth of a democrat or a republican.
     
  18. ASLANSPAL

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    Just pointed out with quotes it seems that
    George Bush flip flopped and showed hypocrisy
    by saying this and he made no excuses for it
    but yet he does not follow his own remedy.

    Mr. Bush was critical of Al Gore in the 2000 campaign for being part of “the administration that's been in charge” while the “price of gasoline has gone steadily upward.” In December 1999, in the first Republican primary debate, Mr. Bush said President Clinton“must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices.” before you call
    me names actually read what bush said and his
    own remedy for rising fuel prices..I think you
    protest to much.

    This could be a bush motive and it could not
    but, he did say it in 1978

    There's no such thing as being too closely aligned with the oil industry in West Texas.
    -- In 1978, when he was running for U.S. Congress, Time Magazine, Jul. 3, 2000

    now address what bush said and leave me out
    of it thank you.
     
  19. poncho

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  20. KenH

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    No amount of jawboning can lower prices when speculators are driving up the price on the Nymex and OPEC has little capacity at the moment to expand production.
     

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