USA In The Cross Hairs?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Truth Files, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    Recent actions by the US government regarding Israel and the nations ancient enemies may be placing the USA in the cross hairs of the Lord's wrath:

    Genesis
    12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee:

    12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

    12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed

    Jeremiah
    30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

    Is The US the "great city" [civilization] part of MBG in Revelation's account? This is a possibility .... it depends upon how close the world is to the Lord's coming hour [time] of trial and testing:

    This beast will rise out of the Middle East [in the little horn] [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7; Micah 5:5-6]

    Revelation
    17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

    This beast's first target will be the great city part of MBG

    Revelation
    17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

    17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

    17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

    18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

    18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

    18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

    18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

    18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

    18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

    18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more

    18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

    18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

    18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

    18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

    18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

    18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

    8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

    8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain [kingdom] burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

    8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

    14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    This same beast will attempt to destroy Israel, will succeed to invade and occupy, but this will be his up ending
     
  2. Truth Files

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    USA in the cross hairs continued .....

    The doom of the beast and his followers:

    Psalms
    83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.

    83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.

    83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

    83:5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

    83:6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;

    83:7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;

    83:8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

    Ezekiel
    38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

    38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog [satan], the land of Magog [the geographical land area and core of the of the ancient Assyrian Empire], the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

    38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

    38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    38:5 Persia, Cush, and Put with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

    38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

    38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

    38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

    Daniel
    11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land [Israel], and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

    12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

    12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

    12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

    12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    Zechariah
    12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

    12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about [in the Middle East], when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

    12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

    Daniel
    11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him

    Revelation
    19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

    19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

    Ezekiel
    39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

    39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

    39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

    39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

    39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

    39:13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

    39:14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

    39:15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

    39:16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

    39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

    39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

    39:19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

    39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

    39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

    39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

    39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

    39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

    39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

    39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

    39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

    39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

    39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
     
  3. glfredrick

    glfredrick
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    I expect that we're already suffering the consequences for turning our collective backs on God...

    I recall one of the lines that came out of the 9/11 crisis: "You ask, 'Where was God when the planes hit the buildings?' Right where you've asked Him to be -- gone from your presence..."

    We have eliminated God (and especially Christ!) from the public square, from the media and our dominant cultural dictator (television), pushed Him from the classroom and the university, and even our theological seminaries are often not truly biblical and God-honoring, in that they teach the doctrines of human reason instead of God's Word and the doctrines derived thereof. Now, we push back against God's chosen people and nation... Can't be good. :BangHead:


    One thought about all of this, however. America almost has to go away before the end time events. There is no mention of a super power in the West that comes to anyone's rescue. We may still be here as an entity, but we need to be rendered impotent as a nation before the end times events come to pass. I believe that we are seeing that happen before our eyes, and so any reprieve from the continual pressing of liberal weakening politics against the people of the USA who desire otherwise will not be forthcoming. We will be sold out, and God's agenda will advance.

    Our best hope is to know Him, teach Him, share Him, and hold fast in faith for the times that Jesus so clearly articulated in the Olivet Discourse.
     
  4. kyredneck

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    No hope for America. Has your eschatology resulted in such fatalism in other areas of your life also?

    Do you also adhere to this fatalistic belief of the Israel Cult?:

    “Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned and supported”.
     
    #4 kyredneck, Sep 17, 2010
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  5. Truth Files

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    glfredrick said:

    "One thought about all of this, however. America almost has to go away before the end time events. There is no mention of a super power in the West that comes to anyone's rescue. We may still be here as an entity, but we need to be rendered impotent as a nation before the end times events come to pass. I believe that we are seeing that happen before our eyes, and so any reprieve from the continual pressing of liberal weakening politics against the people of the USA who desire otherwise will not be forthcoming. We will be sold out, and God's agenda will advance.

    Our best hope is to know Him, teach Him, share Him, and hold fast in faith for the times that Jesus so clearly articulated in the Olivet Discourse."

    I would concur with your thought about the USA since the nation's prominence is not identified by name in any prophetic vision as are other empires of the ancient past are like Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Grecia [all Middle Eastern]

    So your view may very well be true

    However, it really depends upon how close we are to the coming tribulation period

    If we are close then I would suggest that Revelation 18 is a precise description of the global position of the USA today

    And notice that this great center of commerce and wealth has no king as did the ancient empires of the past according to Revelation 18

    This "great city" [civilization] part of MBG sits as a "queen", but the power and influence possessed is one of financial wealth and economic trading

    When this great city falls, it will cause extreme economic upheaval across the globe

    This center of economic power and influence is branded by its spreading of business wealth [merchants] and systems of commercial trading and materialism

    How close are we .... no one can know

    Is Revelation 18 a description of the USA .... this is possible
     
    #5 Truth Files, Sep 17, 2010
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  6. Logos1

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    Look out Oz here we come!

    The U.S. might be doing a lot of things that put us in God’s crosshairs, but one thing we know with absolute certainty is that we are not doing anything in regards to Israel that puts us in God’s crosshairs, because it is impossible to do so.

    The only Israel mentioned in the bible is covenant Israel which ended in 70 AD. There are no future biblical events left to happen in regards to Israel.

    Some people are having so much fun linking newspaper headlines to ancient biblical prophecies that they are hooked on them like a drug dependency. They are in prophetic denial and don’t want to leave Oz. The truth is not entertaining to them—only the fantasies that reach deep into their prophecy twisted craniums provide the stimulation they crave.

    Look out Oz here we come full throttle and burning rubber.

    “Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

    Why thank you Mel!
     
  7. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    Logos1,

    What are you hooked on?

    What is your hope?

    Are you a believer in and follower Jesus Christ .... or is it something else?

    You sound lile a typical scoffer who likes to have fun by discrediting those who teach the truth from the scriptures of the Lord's Word

    This is a prime symptom of the preterist and I see it all of the time on the message boards today

    Have you ever thought about why you behave as you do?

    There is something very wrong with your position

    Who convinced you to become a preterist?

    I know, but tell me anyway
     
    #7 Truth Files, Sep 18, 2010
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  8. Logos1

    Logos1
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    Thank you, I though you would never ask!

    The Holy Spirit convinced me!

    I use to be lost in the delusion of premil dispensationalism like so many others. But reading the bible from the Preterist view point makes it all come together in harmony.

    Realizing the Apostles taught Christ would come in their generation was absolute confirmation of Preterism. They were the ones inspired by the Holy Spirit not today’s prophecy pundits. If they were wrong then the bible cannot be inerrant. I believe the bible is inerrant so they have to be right in their expectation that Christ returned in their generation.

    That realization and the conviction of the Holy Spirit made a Preterist out of me!

    “Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

    Why thank you Mel!
     
  9. glfredrick

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    For the record, I'm no preterest, nor am I "Left Behind" pre-mil. The prophecies of Scripture were given to believers, who will be expected to persevere until God takes them home. I do believe that there will be a rapture, but the timing of that event does not coincide with a no-peril time, else why all the warnings from Jesus, John, Peter, and Paul (not to mention the OT prophets) about those days?

    I greatly fear that many in the church today have fallen prey to the same mindset of Jerusalem during the first century. With the fulfillment of prophecy walking in their midst, they still failed to see Him until after the fact (and then some still did not grasp what it was that they missed) largely because they decided before hand that they actually understood all the prophetic signs.

    I figure that we'll all be somewhat surprised at how it works out, and a good number, if not all of us, will be right in some things but not others.
     
  10. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    "That realization and the conviction of the Holy Spirit made a Preterist out of me!"

    Some familiar "spirit" has made a fool out of you .... you have been deceived

    Here is why:

    Revelation
    12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Don't let satan snooker you into the coming tribulation .... he is out to kill you

    1Timothy
    4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

    2Peter
    3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

    3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


    This is not a picture of 70 A.D.

    Let the Lord speak:

    1Thessalonians
    5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

    5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

    5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

    5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

    5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

    Revelation
    3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    Matthew
    24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

    24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Luke
    21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

    Revelation
    6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

    6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

    6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

    6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

    6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

    6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

    8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

    8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

    8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

    8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

    8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

    8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

    8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

    8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

    8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

    8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

    9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

    9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

    16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

    16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
     
    #10 Truth Files, Sep 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2010
  11. Logos1

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    So very typical of so many futurists when you give a honest answer from the heart to their question about why you are a Preterist. They can’t handle the truth because they have no answer to guidance from the Holy Spirit. They are left simply to lash out in anger and frustration. I’m use to it--happens all the time.

    But on a more serious note we see above another sad example of a rare medical condition that afflicts some forum posters known as Verbous Maximus Postamus (VMP for short). It results from the victim’s confusion of posting mind boggling amounts of material with being persuasive.

    Sometimes in the more serious cases of VMP the victim calls into question the Christianity of everyone who disagrees with him.

    There is no known cure, but the VMP of America Foundation works diligently on finding a cure and improving the life of those who suffer from this dreaded affliction.

    I can only suggest that members of the forum join me in prayer for TF’s condition. :praying:

    God bless you TF, hang in there, keep fighting that urge to post entire newspapers, and may we see a miracle cure for you in our lifetime.

    “Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

    Why thank you Mel!
     
  12. Winman

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    I believe Dubai could be Babylon in Revelations 18. It is part of the old Babylonian empire, and it has come from nowhere in just 20 years to become a major city of trade.

    I believe the USA might be shown in Revelations 12. If so, it shows we will be an ally of Israel and save it from an approaching army.

    Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


    This "great eagle" could possibly be the USA. If so, this seems to me to be speaking of Israel being brought from all the nations of the world back into their own land which was indeed a wilderness at the time. Notice it says "into her place". And without a doubt, since Israel has been brought back to their ancient land no one has supported and nourished Israel like the United States.
     
    #12 Winman, Sep 18, 2010
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  13. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    Winman,

    There are many ideas regarding who the "great city" part of MBG is at the time of the end and that is because we only have a detailed description of this entity .... but no literal national identification

    At any rating, this worldwide core economic power has substantial influence and dominating control over the other cities and nations of the world .... even the kingdom of satan's beast and his followers .... and these will hate the "woman" [the worldwide economic system of MBG] and destroy her great "city" part in one day at the beginning of the coming tribulation period [Revelation 13:1-4; 17:1-3; 17:8-18] ... notice that it is the Lord who instigates this attack because He is against her [Revelation 8:8; 14:8; 18:1-8; 19:1-9]

    The Lord is so infurriated against this core part of MBG that He revisits the land mass where the "great city" stood and breaks it into 3rds with the greatest earthquake known to man during the battle of Armageddon [Revelation 16:18-19] .... this great quake will also bring down all of the other cities of the nations [MBG]

    The Lord intends to seek and destroy all of human government during His coming hour [time] of trial and judgment against an intransigent world .... and only Israel will be left as the core of His coming millennial kingdom on the earth [Jeremiah 30:11; Acts 1:6]

    He does not like collective human organization [city building] apart from His involvement which was initially contrived just after the flood for the purpose of escaping His providence and direction

    This human tendency creates an environment of lust, greed, crime, murder, undistributed wealth, materialism, political corruption, false religion, etc. and the condition is one which keeps humans from seeking the Lord because they become dependant upon their own striving

    So MBG is the symbolic term that is used by Him to describe the condition of a lost world of humanity that stands against His will [Genesis 10; 11]

    Neither do we know where we are on the Lord's scheduled time line .... he could intervene and begin His judgment process before this day is over .... or He could tarry much longer

    But if we are close, then I would suggest that Revelation is describing the USA

    The USA has been a protector of tiny Israel, but the position seems to be changing at this time .... in fact the current administration is mostly likely making grave mistakes by its behavior toward Israel [attempting to force Israel into making concessions to their hard and fast enemies of the Middle East] [Psalms 83; Zechariah 12:3; 12:9]

    Revelation 12 is a very significant passage of scripture that is packed with information

    It contains an overview of the relationship including Israel [the "woman"], the Lord [the "manchild"], and satan' rentless obsession to destroy both over time

    I would suggest to consider the link of the following scriptures:

    [Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

    All taken together one can see that the "fleeing" will be from Israel for survival and protection when satan's beast and his followers attack and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount for 42 months [last 1260 days of the 70th week decreed] during the time of the end [Revelation 11:2; 13:1-5]

    This fleeing will be from Judea into the eastern wilderness [east of Israel] and through the rift valley created by the parting of the Mount of Olives [Zechariah 14:4-5] [similar to the parting of the Red sea to escape the Egyptian armies]

    It is the Lord who will make the way for this event and those who flee will escape and will survive for 1260 days [second half of the 70th week [Jacob's trouble .... Jeremiah 30] decreed for the nation]; and satan will not be able to reach them

    So I believe that the "great eagle" is symbolically the Lord Himself

    He will not be seen in this action by the world, but the actual event on the earth will be

    Then at the end of the 70th week decreed He will appear to the world, will be seen, and He will begin His gathering process of all of the mortals who survive the tribulation period [Matthew 29-31(the elect of Israel); 25:31-46(of the nations)
     
    #13 Truth Files, Sep 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2010
  14. kyredneck

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    .....the great city....where also their Lord was crucified. Rev 11:8

    The reason there's so many ideas is that folks won't listen to plain scripture.
     
  15. Truth Files

    Truth Files
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    There are two "great" cities presented in Revelation .... not the same

    Revelation 11 .... Jerusalem; the Lord's city.... it still is, and will continue to be

    Revelation 17 and 18 .... the great city and system of the gentiles .... all of this is going down ....will cease to exist

    Scripture picking as the preterist does will not return the correct rendering of the prophetic scriptures .... many scriptures of the O.T. and N.T. need to be presented on this particular subject as well as many other subjects

    Trashing and or ignoring volumes of significant scripture in order to support false teaching is a dead ended road to no where

    I noticed this statement that you made: "where also their Lord was crucified. Rev 11:8"

    This is not what verse 11:8 states at all

    Is Jesus Christ your Lord, or just Israel's Lord?

    It seem as though you are attempting to put this scene in the past

    If so explain who the Lord's two prophets were back in the first century and where is the scriptural evidence of their presence at the time
     
    #15 Truth Files, Sep 19, 2010
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  16. kyredneck

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    No, the great city of Rev 11 is the same as Rev 17 & 18.

    .....Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great.............she glorified herself, and waxed wanton, so much give her of torment and mourning: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall in no wise see mourning. Rev 18:2,7

    She is no queen, and she indeed is a widow, she killed her husband Christ the King, and over the last two millennia she has seen much torment and mourning.
     
  17. Logos1

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    Babylon of Revelation is Old Jerusalem

    The identity of Babylon is way over thought. It is Jerusalem. Revelation tells us it is the place that killed the prophets. Jesus says the same thing about Jerusalem himself.

    Plus the application of common sense will bring us to the same conclusion. Revelation is written from a Jewish standpoint and there was a measure of Jewish arrogance since they view the world through the lense of being God’s chosen people. They wouldn’t devote so much time in Revelation to any pagan city. Only Jerusalem would get so much ink in a book by a Jewish author.

    Old Jerusalem, the Jerusalem destroyed in 70 AD.

    “Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

    Why thank you Mel!
     
  18. asterisktom

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    This is called a textual variation. Some manuscripts read "their", others "your". I believe NIV differs from KJV on this, for instance. The point is that, well, it is beside the point. Either way, it refers to Jerusalem.

    I suspect you see this, so you grab at straws and call Kyredneck's salvation into doubt.

    Not that anyone takes you seriously when you do that.
     
  19. kyredneck

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    Thanks Tom. I really do appreciate that.
     

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