Van Morrison: When Will I Ever Learn to Live in God

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Mike McK, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    After getting into a discussion over the much speculated on spiritual life of Van Morrison on another message board, I brought this up and thought I'd share it with you.

    Like a lot of his songs, it touches on Christian themes.

    What do you think?


    When Will I Ever Learn to Live in God

    The sun was setting over Avalon
    The last time we stood in the west
    Suffering long time angels enraptured by Blake
    Burn out the dross innocence captured again

    Standing on the beach at sunset all the boats
    All the boats keep moving slow
    In the glory of the flashing light in the evenings glow

    When will I ever learn to live in God?
    When will I ever learn?
    He gives me everything I need and more
    When will I ever learn?

    You brought it to my attention everything that was made in God
    Down through centuries of great writings and paintings
    Everything lives in God
    Seen through architecture of great cathedrals
    Down through the history of time
    Is and was in the beginning and evermore shall be

    When will I ever learn to live in God?
    When will I ever learn?
    He gives me everything I need and more
    When will I ever learn?

    Whatever it takes to fulfill his mission
    That is the way we must go
    But you've got to do it your own way
    Tear down the old, bring up the new

    And up on the hillside its quiet
    Where the shepherd is tending his sheep
    And over the mountains and the valleys
    The countryside is so green
    Standing on the highest hill with a sense of wonder
    You can see everything is made in God
    Head back down the roadside and give thanks for it all

    When will I ever learn to live in God?
    When will I ever learn?
    He gives me everything I need and more
    When will I ever learn?



    Now Playing: Bob Dylan – “Blood on the Tracks”
     
  2. av1611jim

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    Whatever it takes to fulfill his mission
    That is the way we must go
    But you've got to do it your own way
    Tear down the old, bring up the new
    __________________________________________________

    Wrong answer!

    "Touches on christian themes". HUH?

    Nothing "christian" about it. One could sing "about God" all day long but it still doesn't make it "christian themed".

    For even the devils believe and tremble.

    Can't say for sure, but I highly doubt if the devils are christian. :rolleyes:

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  3. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    I disagree. I believe that it is a Christian theme and that it's relevant to Christians, as well as being the struggles of many of us, including the singer, who try to live out our walks with Christ.

    I'm guessing that you're taking exception to the line, "But you've got to do it your own way", but isn't this true?

    Hasn't God given each of us unique gifts, talents and callings?

    I mean, your walk isn't like mine and mine isn't like someone else's.

    I find the song very inspiring and I don't see what there is to disagree with.


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  4. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    Agree with you, Mike.
    Never heard this song, but then again, I never really listened to Van Morrison, other than "Moondance." [danced to it at my wedding]

    Notice that you were listening to Mr. Zimmerman.
    [​IMG] Excellent album!!

    Now Playing: Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Liverpool"

    [Hope that made you laugh]

    Regards, my delightfully-eclectic-taste-exhibiting friend,

    BiR [in Atlanta - Ritz Carlton (Downtown)]
     
  5. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    If you're not familiar with him, a lot of his songs touch on Christian themes or, at least, themes that are relevant to Christians.

    He's even had a couple of hits on Christian radio (this wasn't one of them).

    One of the interesting things about him is that, while his faith in Christ is pretty well known, he doesn't talk much about it. In fact, he's known for being somewhat reclusive and prefers to let his music speak for itself, which I think is probably the best thing to do.

    Yeah, that is a great album.

    A good rule of thumb is, if you want to get Curtis involved in a thread, throw Dylan a bone. [​IMG]

    I see...

    You, too.

    Hey, you're moving up in the world.


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  6. Aaron

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    This is humanism, plain and simple.
     
  7. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    This is humanism, plain and simple. </font>[/QUOTE]So then you don't believe that we should fulfil the mission to which Christ has called us, or that we are all individuals in Christ, or that Christ makes all things new?


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  8. Aaron

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    Scripturally, what does it "take" to fulfill His mission?

    The power of the Holy Ghost.

    Whose way, or methods, should we employ?

    God's...Thy kingdom come, THY will be done...

    Pretty elementary stuff here.
     
  9. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    I guess he prefers to keep his personal faith....personal.

    I can respect that.

    Regards to you,
    BiR

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  10. Mike McK

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    I guess he prefers to keep his personal faith....personal.

    I can respect that.

    Regards to you,
    BiR

    Now Playing: The Sisters of Mercy - A Slight Case of Overbombing
    </font>[/QUOTE]So do I. When did we decide that somebody was supposed to be a preacher just because he can play a guitar?

    When you're a celebrity, I think you're in a bit of an awkward situation because it's hard to proclaim your faith without it becoming about you.

    On the other hand, maybe he saw what we did to Clapton and Dylan when news of their conversions hit and decided he'd be better off keeping his mouth shut.


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  11. Mike McK

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    I agree and I don't know that the song disagrees.

    What's the problem?


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  12. Johnv

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    Not my favorite song in the world, but I can definitely see how "When Will I Ever Learn To Live In God" touches on some Christian themes.

    Now, if you REALLY want a song with Christian themes, take a listen to "Longer" by Dan Fogelberg. Now, imagine that this is Jesus talking to you. Kinda sends chills up my spine:


    Longer than there've been fishes in the ocean
    Higher than any bird ever flew
    Longer than there've been stars up in the heavens
    I've been in love with you.

    Stronger than any mountain cathedral
    Truer than any tree ever grew
    Deeper than any forest primeval
    I am in love with you.

    I'll bring fires in the winters
    You'll send showers in the springs
    We'll fly through the falls and summers
    With love on our wings.

    Through the years as the fire starts to mellow
    Burning lines in the book of our lives
    Though the binding cracks and the pages start to yellow
    I'll be in love with you.

    Longer than there've been fishes in the ocean
    Higher than any bird ever flew
    Longer than there've been stars up in the heavens
    I've been in love with you
    I am in love with you..
     
  13. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    Here is another that touches on Christian themes.

    What is this that stands before me?
    Figure in black which points at me
    Turn around quick, and start to run
    Find out I'm the chosen one - Oh no!

    Big black shape with eyes of fire
    Telling people their desire
    Satan's sitting there, he's smiling
    Watch those flames get higher and higher
    Oh no, no, please God help me!

    Child cries out for his mother
    Mother's screaming in the fire
    Satan points at me again
    Opens the door to push me in
    Oh No!

    This is the end my friend
    Satan's coming 'round the bend
    people running 'cause they're scared
    You people better go and beware!
    No! No! Please! No!


    These were written by "Geezer" Butler, the bass player in Black Sabbath.
     
  14. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    Has anybody ever listened to Van's "Hymns to the Silence"?

    He's known for usually including a Gospel song on his albums and several in his live shows, but this is probably as close as he's ever come to doing an all out Gospel album.


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  15. Jarthur001

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    Mike,

    You like to listen to rock a lot....or at least you post many things claiming you do. Are your post trying to show this is honoring to God? If so... don't see the point.

    In worship do you think God is honored with Jackson Browne songs like "cocaine" or "rosy"? Or are you trying to prove that even a unsaved person trys to show the world he is "OK"...or not that bad....and in doing so..he really does not need Christ?

    My point is...i see no point in you claiming rock is a great way to worship God. If we would play this game you try so hard to promote... and say it is fine to do so...it still must be asked...is this the best way to worship God???

    Will people have a "moment"..and write a song about God? yes..it happens all the time. does this mean they are saved? no. it means God reached out and made them see life for what it is...called them to Him...they thought about it...wrote a song...and went back to the old life.

    would you not agree the best thing for someone to do...is read the bible? lets see a few post from you telling how God has blessed you in reading a psalm in the Bible.

    so....1) what is your point?
    and...2) how about something from the Bible and not from a rock world that hates God.

    In Christ..James
     
  16. Jarthur001

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    or maybe one line like this...
    "now reading john 3:16"


    and not....

    now playing Bob Dylan, Rice, Rice, Hillman and Pedersen,Dan Fogelberg,Black Sabbath, KISS,Frank Sinatra.


    i don't know about the rice bowl group...but i do know about the others. bob have a "moment"...wrote a few songs..then later said people had the wrong idea. do you think frank was saved..singing to the LORD? dan..i use to have 4 records by him. dan was a good song writer But..i would no call him saved. He was not writing to win others to the Lord. If anything he was a new ager. I had 4 KISS records. I went to 3 conterts by KISS. Nothing God honoring about it. a lot of drinking...pot smoking...and men on stage trying to get young ladies in bed. Read their story about the lady that made a mode of "them". they did not live a life of God honoring...your dreaming if you think so

    I did hear that one person was saved from black Sabbath. But the music of Black Sabbath was against God..not to honor God.


    just a thought....share you love for HIM...not your love for rock
     
  17. Mike McK

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    Sometimes, when Jesus spoke, not everybody got it because it wasn't meant for everybody.

    Maybe God doesn't just choose to speak to you the same way that He does to me.

    Doesn't mean that His way of talking to me and you is any better or worse, just different.



    In worship? No.

    They're not worship songs.

    Actually, Van Morrison, who is the subject of this thread is a Christian. Many of his songs reflect his Christian faith.

    Some rock is. Some rock isn't.

    So, what do you believe is the best way to worship God?

    So then, if these songs are a result of God's hand, then why would they be bad for a Christian to listen to.

    I believe very much in the Bible and study and read it every day.

    This, unfortunately, is a music forum, so I tend to stick to that subject here.

    If you'd like to see what I have to say about the Bible, I post quite a bit at ChristianForums.com.

    I do tend to talk about light hearted subjects here on baptistboard, but you can see a lot more of what I believe over there.

    That some of Van Morrison's songs contain a Christian worldview and that they might be thought provoking to the Christian.

    Many of the songs I've posted here and in other threads contain Biblical themes.


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  18. Mike McK

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    Actually, I'm not a big fan of either KISS or Black Sabbath.

    They're very good. One of the memebers, Chris Hillman, is a born again believer. I may be wrong, but I think his partner, Herb Pedersen, is, too.

    Hillman was a member of the Byrds and the Souther, Hillman, Furay Band (incidently, his partner in that band, Ritchie Furay, is now a Calvary Chapel pastor).

    Herb Pedersen was a member of Emmylou Harris' Hot Band and Linda Ronstadt's band, as well as being a popular studio musician.

    Tony Rice is widely heralded as one of the greatest guitarists of recent times.

    His Brother, Wyatt Rice, is a talented songwriter.

    He never renounced his Christianity, the way that Clapton did.

    He simply said that he did not want to be a Christian celebrity.

    I try to stay very far away from declaring who is or isn't saved.

    Is that how one is saved? By writing Christian songs?

    Why can't I share both?

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  19. Mike McK

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    Forgot to mention that he was also one of the Flying Burrito Brothers and younger listeners might know him as a member of the Desert Rose Band.

    There was also Manassas, but I doubt many people here would know them.

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  20. Baptist in Richmond

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    Wow: with Graham?
    I didn't know that.

    By the way, thanks for that link to the article on SRV. I really appreciated that.

    Regards to you, Brother,
    BiR

    P.S. I went to lunch with a colleague the other day and he was playing the debut album by Rage Against the Machine. Holy cow......... :eek:
     

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