Versions 101

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Word Traveler, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. Word Traveler

    Word Traveler
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    Hi guys. I'm gonna have to ask for your patience, here. I'm having kind of a hard time understanding what the root of the versions debate is all about. I've used a KJB for years to teach Sunday school,etc. But I also use other versions as the mood strikes (I guess that makes me KJB preferred -- as opposed to "only"). My question is: Does the debate boil down to which of the ancient manuscripts each version is translated from -- as to reliability? And why would the reliability of a particular source be suspect? We have the canon. Do some versions glean from apocryphal sources? I guess this may sound silly to some of you--cuz I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer--but I tend to use prayer, and the Holy Spirit's guidance in Bible study instead of worrying about ancient sources. I tend to believe the Word of God transcends translations. It "will not pass away." Anyway, I'd appreciate a little light on the subject, cuz it do interest me! Your thoughts on any of the above questions would be appreciated. In Christ, WT [​IMG]
     
  2. robycop3

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    Hello, WT!

    First, your approach to the subject is the BEST ONE POSSIBLE, asking the HOLY SPIRIT to be your Guide.

    However, the manuscripts issue isn't the WHOLE picture...there are those who try to tell everyone else that the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation. This simply isn't true. All evidence proves it isn't true, including the existence of many English Bibles before the KJV.

    And the manuscripts argument has been going on amongst scholars for well over a hundred years, with no end in sight. Thank God, the HOLY SPIRIT provides direction in this mess! He guides different believers to different versions, depending upon what work He has for any given person.

    The heart of the versions debate is that some people push a false, man-made doctrine, started by a KNOWN CULT OFFICIAL, that the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible version...and that they provide EXCUSES...certainly no valid REASONS...and absolutely no EVIDENCE...attempting to support this myth. We seek to both prevent any "newbies" from being deceived by this false doctrine, and hoping that the diehard KJVOs will see the doctrine someone has taught them is phony as a football bat. GOD IS NOT LIMITED in how He may choose to present/provide His word.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother Robycop3 -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    Here is the difference that convinced me of the
    need for a Modern Version

    2 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV1769):
    Ye are not straitened in us,
    but ye are straitened in your own bowels.

    2 Corinthians 6:12 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible)
    You are not limited by us,
    but you are limited by your own affections.

    I've listened to well over 6,000 sermons,
    none of which seemd to explain this.
    No, I read about it here on the Baptist
    Board. Unstraighten your bowels --
    refresh your bowels in the Lord. Amen!

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus! [​IMG]
     
  4. Old Timer

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    The problem WT is in the FACT that God promised to preserve his word for us.
    The versions do not agree. Therefore one must be God's word while the others are not.
    You will here plenty of gas here about how "they all have the same message" until the cows come home. A simple study of the version will prove to you that is not true.
    When you find that to be the case you can dismiss the folks who post that as any kind of authority on the subject as I have.
    After all if one cannot see the difference between words then why is one even discussing words?
     
  5. Ed Edwards

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    Please show by scripture that
    God made this promise. Note for the dense:
    I did not say one cannot show this by scripture,
    i asked for a reminder from scripture
    that God made this promise.

    I consider it axiomatic that God preserves
    His precious written word through multiple
    versions in English. The liberal
    assumption of many
    the King James Version Onliest (KJVOest)
    is that the KJV1769 edition is the
    only way God can preserve his word.

    This is a false and unnecessary dichotomy.
     
  6. Ransom

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    The versions do not agree. Therefore one must be God's word while the others are not.

    Hey Old Timer, answer this question.

    Suppose for the sake of argument that I have four pictures of my wife. One is a formal wedding photo taken at the church by a professional photographer. One is a portrait taken in a studio under ideal lighting conditions. One is a candid snap taken at the beach with a disposable 35mm camera. And the last, well, let's just say it's a cheap digital camera snap intended for my eyes only.

    Which one of the four pictures is truly my wife? The wedding photo, the portrait, the candid shot, or the sexy one?
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    None of them are truly your wife. They are all a mere representation of your wife. I assume in each picture that she has all her members that God has given her with nothing omitted. That would make each photo an accurate representation of the original.
     
  8. Ransom

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    That would make each photo an accurate representation of the original.

    Even the low-res digital photo shot under poor lighting conditions? Say it ain't so!

    But suppose the photographer who took the studio portrait did a little bit of airbrushing. Wouldn't that have corrupted the picture and turned it into a counterfeit that might have looked like my wife, perhaps fooled some of my undiscerning friends into thinking it was my wife, but no longer truly represented my wife?
     
  9. Pastor_Bob

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    That's what happens when you use an inferior camera to take the picture. You don't get a very flattering image of the original.
     
  10. Ransom

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    Well, I'm sorry I have to disagree, Pastor Bob. I am a One Picture Onlyist. These four pictures do not agree. Only one of them can be a faithful representation of my wife. Therefore, the other three are obviously fakes, probably submitted by some unscrupulous woman who intends to use them to seduce me away from my true love.

    (I'd still like to see Old Timer answer my original question . . . that is, if he dares.)
     
  11. AVL1984

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    Old Timer, please prove that the versions disagree. Post the proof if you have such. If not, please quit blathering your mindless nonsense. I know you will not post proof, because you do not have proof. :eek:

    AVL1984
     
  12. superdave

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    As do most of us here. I think this is the correct view, it is also the traditional view of the church, Baptists included.
     
  13. superdave

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    And one could say, where each picture represents the true nature of your wife, they could indeed be called your wife. Where they do not, as in your airbrush example, they would not be true to the nature of your wife.

    A good analogy for situations such as the one discussed on another thread, where a textual variant from a few early latin manuscripts, and only very late greek ones would support the longer reading in I John regarding the heavenly witnesses. An "airbrush" if you will by an early church father to add a teaching about the trinity into a verse where the majority of the texts lack such a teaching. Yet amazingly, you seem to know that all four pictures are your wife? Hmmm, interesting. Perhaps its because the key identifiers are intact, and the truth is evident.

    If only I understood what God clearly has done to preserve the photos of your wife, than I would understand.
     
  14. Word Traveler

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    Hi guys. I really appreciate the responses to my post. I'm getting a better feel for this debate, and I thank ya! I'm glad God gives us discernment in such matters. The Word of God is all about communication, right? Given that, why would God allow His Word to remain in "the king's english", when contemporary language is better understood by contemporary society? Anyway, that's the thought I just thunk! Forgive me, it's late. In Christ, WT [​IMG]
     
  15. robycop3

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    Old Timer:The problem WT is in the FACT that God promised to preserve his word for us.

    Not a prob, but a FACT. I got a few more FACTS for you in this post!


    The versions do not agree. Therefore one must be God's word while the others are not.

    NOT a fact...unless you chose ONLY ONE of the four Gospels as the only valid one.

    And since you're apparently KJVO, Sir, what criteria did you use to make your decision?


    You will here plenty of gas here about how "they all have the same message" until the cows come home. A simple study of the version will prove to you that is not true.

    A simple study of the Gospels will show you they're all different from each other.


    When you find that to be the case you can dismiss the folks who post that as any kind of authority on the subject as I have.

    Same as you can dismiss anything that says all the Gospels are the same.


    After all if one cannot see the difference between words then why is one even discussing words?

    After all, if one sees the differences in the Gospels, why does one believe ALL of them?
     

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