Wars and Rumors of Wars, Earthquakes in Diverse Places

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by TexasSky, May 26, 2005.

  1. TexasSky

    TexasSky
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    Do you ever think about "what if he came tomorrow" beyond being thrilled He returned?

    When I was a teenager our minister pointed out that there have been several times in history when all but one or two of the signs of the return of Christ were fulfilled. At the time he gave the speech, a famous evangelist had predicted the return in 1981. There were a lot of people who agreed because at the time, everything except the rebuilding of the temple could be checked off as "this has happened," and 1981 was the projected date for the temple to be rebuilt.

    Then war broke out again.

    Well - today, there certainly seem to be a lot of the signs fulfilled again.

    What if we ~knew~ it was "tomorrow"?

    Would we regret the witness we didn't give? Is there an unsaved person in our life that we hoped someone else shared the gospel with? Is there a sin we haven't repented from that we are afraid to face the Lord face-to-face about?

    How will we answer Him if He looks at us and goes, "I became part of your life 40 years ago. In 3 years, I healed the sick, raised the dead, forgave sins, cast out demons, taught the world about faith, and lead 12 special men into missions. What did you do with the 40 I gave you?"

    Is there someone in your life that you hope you'll see in heaven, but you don't KNOW you will?

    If you knew that tomorrow was THE day, would you change anything tonight?
     
  2. Ben W

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    Hopefully not, yet my opinion, is that the Lord will tarry until we have reached every nation with the Gospel, Christians still have not yet evangalised many countries.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Here is some data on the Gospel going into
    the whole world:


    Matthew 24:14 (HCSB):

    This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed
    in all the world as a testimony to all nations.
    And then the end will come.



    Items quoted from THE ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD,
    1991-1992 Edition (Tyndale, 1990), page 305+.

    61AD - Colossians 1:6 (HCSB):
    the gospel that has come to you. It is bearing fruit
    and growing all over the world, just as it has
    among you since the day you heard it and recognized
    God's grace in the truth.

    c. 140AD - Hermas writes: "The Son of God ... has
    been preached to the ends of the earth" (Shepherd
    of Hermas).

    197AD - Tertullian (c160-222) ... writes ... "There
    is no nation indeed which is not Christian" ...

    c. 205AD - Clement of Alexandria (c155-215) ... writes
    "The whole world, with Athens and Greece, has already
    become the domain of the Word."

    c. 310 - Eusebius of Caesarea (c265-339) writes ...
    ""The doctrine of the Savious
    has irradiated the whole Oikumene
    (whole inhabited earth)"

    378 - Jerome (c345-419) writes: "From India to Britian, all
    nations resound with the death and resurrection of CHrist".
    estimates 1.9 million Christians to have been marytred
    since AD33 (out of 120 million Christians). ...

    etc.

    From the beginning Christians have believed
    that the word had already gone out to the
    whole world and that the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection would happen at any time God the Father wants it to happen. [​IMG]
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
    ask three questions:

    (in the order asked):
    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    3. What is the sign of the end of age?

    Jesus answers these questions in
    Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
    some parables.

    Here are the answers of Jesus in the
    order the questions were asked:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    Here is a summary of the answers
    in the order in which events will occur:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Soon, it was in 70AD

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    No signs preceeding the end of the age

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    The Sign of His coming will be the
    Tribulation period.


    Recall the Greek language in which this
    Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
    did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
    So many ands, buts, and other connectors
    give the outline. I believe the major
    outline to be:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
    Rapture/resurrection which ends the
    current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
    last days, etc.)

    Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
    church age even up to this time.
    Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
    The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
    that the church age continues
    .

    Obviously then, the signs of Matthew 24:4-14
    are NOT signs that the "end is near".
    The signs that the end is near is that we
    are closer to the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection
    then we have ever been before.
    Praise Jesus! [​IMG]
     
  5. TexasSky

    TexasSky
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    Ed,

    I'll have to take your word on all of that.
    Though, I'll admit, you've got some stiff theological competition there. The minister I was referring to other was President of Southwestern Theological Seminary. ;)

    (By the way, you folks who love to study the end times, do know you need to study the old testament too don't you? It talks about it as well.)
     
  6. JGrubbs

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    That should read, "From the beginning some Christians have believed that the word had already gone out to the whole world and that the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection would happen at any time God the Father wants it to happen."

    In Matthew 24:4-14, Jesus is describing general events that will happen within the 70th week, and as we will see later, they perfectly line up with the first 5 seals in Rev 6. What Jesus is saying is this: There will be certain events occur that will mark the beginning of the end. They will increase in magnitude to include the persecution of the saints. And he makes it clear that those who are faithful until the harvest, will be delivered. Then and only then will God's wrath come.

    For further reading:
    http://members.aol.com/chursey/prewrath.htm#matthew24
     
  7. Grasshopper

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    I'll copy Ed and do a "document dump."

    Jesus' commands:

    Matt.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world ( oiÎkoumeÑnh )for a testimony unto all the nations ( eáqnov ); and then shall the end come.

    Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world ( ko/smov ), and preach the gospel to the whole creation .(ktiðsiv)

    Matt.28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations (eáqnov ), baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

    Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth ( gh=),

    All fulfilled in the 1st century:

    Col.1:6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world ( ko/smov ) bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

    Col 1:23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation
    (ktiðsiv)under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister

    Romans 16:26 but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations ( eáqnov) unto obedience of faith:

    Romans But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth ( gh=), And their words unto the ends of the world ( oiÎkoumeÑnh ).


    Adam Clarke:

    Earthquakes, in divers places.
    If we take the word se?sµ?? from se?? to shake, in the first sense, then it means particularly those popular commotions and insurrections which have already been noted; and this I think to be the true meaning of the word: but if we confine it to earthquakes, there were several in those times to which our Lord refers; particularly one at Crete in the reign of Claudius, one at Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos. See Grotius. One at Rome, mentioned by Tacitus; and one at Laodicea in the reign of Nero, in which the city was overthrown, as were likewise Hierapolis and Colosse. See Tacit. Annal. lib. xii. and lib. xiv. One at Campania, mentioned by Seneca; and one at Rome, in the reign of Galba, mentioned by Suetonius in the life of that emperor. Add to all these, a dreadful one in Judea, mentioned by Josephus (War, b. iv. c. 4.) accompanied by a dreadful tempest, violent winds, vehement showers, and continual lightnings and thunders; which led many to believe that these things portended some uncommon calamity.

    John Gill

    and earthquakes in divers places
    of the world; as, at Crete , and in divers cities in Asia , in the times of Nero: particularly the three cities of Phrygia, Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colosse; which were near to each other, and are all said to perish this way, in his reign ;

    ``and Rome itself felt a tremor, in the reign of Galba .''

    Albert Barnes

    Verse 7. Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. At Caesarea, the Jews and Syrians contended about the right to the city, and twenty thousand of the Jews were slain. At this blow the whole nation of the Jews was exasperated, and carried war and desolation through the Syrian cities and villages. Sedition and civil war spread throughout Judea; Italy was also thrown into civil war, by the contests between Otho and Vitellius for the crown.

    And there shall be famines. There was a famine foretold by Agabus, Acts 11:28, which is mentioned as having occurred, by Tacitus, Suetonius, and Eusebius; and which was so severe in Jerusalem, Josephus says, that many people perished for want of food, Ant. 20, 2. Four times in the reign of Claudius, (AD 41-54,) famine prevailed in Rome, Palestine, and Greece.

    Pestilences. Raging, epidemic diseases. The plague, sweeping off multitudes of people at once. It is commonly the attendant of famine, and often produced by it. A pestilence is recorded as raging in Babylonia, AD 40, (Joseph. Ant. 18, 9, 8) in Italy, AD 66, (Tacitus, 16, 13.) Both of these took place before the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Earthquakes. In prophetic language, earthquakes sometimes mean political commotions. Literally, they are tremors or shakings of the earth, and often shaking cities and towns to ruin. The earth opens, and houses and people sink indiscriminately to destruction. Many of these are mentioned as preceding the destruction of Jerusalem. Tacitus mentions one in the reign of Claudius, at Rome; and says that, in the reign of Nero, the cities of Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colosse, were overthrown; and the celebrated Pompeii was overwhelmed, and almost destroyed by an earthquake, Annales, 15, 22. Others are mentioned as occurring at Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, and Samos. Luke adds, "And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven," Luke 21:11. Josephus, who had probably never heard of this prophecy, and who certainly would have done nothing designedly to show its fulfillment, records the prodigies and signs which he says preceded the destruction of the city. A star, says he, resembling a sword, stood over the city, and a comet that continued a whole year. At the feast of unleavened bread, during the night, a bright light shone round the altar and the temple, so that it seemed to be bright day, for half an hour. The eastern gate of the temple, of solid brass, fastened with strong bolts and bars, and which had been shut with difficulty by twenty men, opened in the night of its own accord. A few days after that feast, he says, "before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities." A great noise, as of the sound of a multitude, was heard in the temple, saying, "LET US REMOVE HENCE." Four years before the war began, Jesus the son of Artanus, a plebeian and a husbandman, came to the feast of the tabernacles, when the city was in peace and prosperity, and began to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegroom and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!" He was scourged, and at every stroke of the whip he cried, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!"--This cry he says, was continued every day for more than seven years, till he was killed in the siege of the city, exclaiming, "Woe, woe to myself also."--Jewish Wars, B. vi. ch. v. & 3.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I notice Ed writes his own stuff;
    Grasshopper dumps other peoples writings.
    Come on, Grass, do an original writing.
    Thank you.
     
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    This is an original writing of Ed,
    it can be found elsewhere on this board.
    -----------------------------------
    Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

    0. church age continues -- you are here
    1. rapture/resurrection
    2. Tribulation time
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
    5. new heaven & new earth

    Postrib pre-mill outline:

    0. church age continues -- you are here
    2. Tribulation time
    1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    (this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
    4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
    5. new heaven & new earth

    Postrib a-mill outline:

    0. church age continues - is the same as: -- you are here
    2. Tribulation time - is the same as: -- you are here
    4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom -- you are here
    1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    (this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
    5. new heaven & new earth

    Peterist a-mill outline:

    0. church age continues -- you are here
    1. rapture/resurrection -done happened
    2. Tribulation time -- or maybe you are here
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event -done happend
    4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom -done happened
    5. new heaven & new earth -- or maybe you are here

    Ed recommends the pretrib pre-mill
    view as aligning most nearly with Holy Scripture.
    Ed recommends:
    get Rapture Ready!
    Stay Rapture Ready!
    -------------------------------

    What Grashopper seems to advocate is
    described above as: "Peterist a-mill".
    This eschatological theory gives us no
    insite into how to live today, where we
    are in prophetic history, nor what will come next.

    The literal futeristic pre-tribulation rapture
    answers all these questions. We are in
    the church age (AKA: Gentile Age, Age of Grace)
    waiting for Jesus to come get us and working
    on the great commission.
     
  10. blackbird

    blackbird
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    Ummmmmmmm???? Could you explain that again, Lucky Eddy?????? [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. Wife of One

    Wife of One
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    Intresting question. If I knew that tomorrow was the end I'd sit at home with my family and hug them and enjoy them and hopefully (knowing my own heart only) Be taken with them when we are all called home. I'd probably make a few phone calls to those I weren't sure if they had heard the words of Christ and try to make a last ditch effort to win them to take with me.

    A Very good question indeed [​IMG]
     
  12. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Revelation says that people from every tribe and tounge will be there to worship God. It is one thing to enter a nation with the Gospel, yet we are to reach every tribe within it. Everyone will know of the Gospel before He returns.

    Consider how many Baptist Churches there are in Iraq? None until just recently Praise God for that though. Yet how many tribes are there in Iraq, how many different peoples to be reached?

    Many people look at the middle east and say oh well they will only come to the Lord with miracles signs and wonders so what is the point, eventually God will draw them to Himself.

    God would like to draw those people to Himself, that you can be sure of, yet His hands and feet in this world are your hands and feet, so if you want to see him return, set to the work!
     

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