was Jesus always in perfect health while on earth?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by UnchartedSpirit, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
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    Does the description of Christ as "The Perfect Man", carry onto his physical nature as well as his spiritual? Does that include never needing caffene, never caught any childhood diseases, etc?
     
  2. Alex Quackenbush

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    Remember, Christ took upon himself the form of a human. While some are excellent at teaching this particular phenomenon, no one can fully explain the mechanics of the Hypostatic Union and every detail of its nature. We can know certain boundaries and certain realities.

    First we can and do know that as a human being Christ was subject to physical death and in his pre-incarnate state (before being born as a human) he was not nor is he now. Before he did not have a physical body that could die and now he has a glorified body that is eternal. So it is clear that he was subject to death during his earthly ministry.

    I suspect the problem comes with the concept of perfect. We readily identify the word perfect to the Divine. God is perfect. Therefore when we think of perfect in relationship to things Christian we immediately equate it with the Divine.

    The Divine is perfect, hence perfect is Divine. And it is true Christ's divinity was in no way diminished, rather he willingly subjected himself to the conditions of the human body:
    Secondly we know Christ required food. The Bible points out that he hungered.
    God in fact does not need. To need is to have an inadequacy. And certainly God does not get hungry. Yet our Lord did. Why? Again because he "was made in the likeness of men" and was fashioned "as a man".

    So, though the Bible does not specifically state, "Jesus did not need caffeine" or "Jesus did not have any childhood diseases" it is clear he was subject to the physical limits of humanity in an body yet glorified.

    So the concept of Jesus, DURING HIS EARTHLY MINISTRY, being "The Perfect Man' as you stated, should not carry with it the expectation that he body, DURING HIS EARTHLY MINISTRY, was not subject to the human experience. He hungered, he tired and slept, he died. With that in mind it is more reasonable to believe Christ was subject to other common human physical needs, wants and difficulties and less reasonable to depart from this (the issue of Christ's mutability or immutability inevitably will come up with some here but it is genuinely unnecessary to discuss in order to answer your question but no doubt the temptation for the theologians to get side tracked and make it about that will arise with a few).

    Now it is interesting to consider the possibilities of some genetic by-products of the Hypostatic Union and possibly being less susceptible to viruses and so on, however that would be purely speculative and not recommended.
     
    #2 Alex Quackenbush, Sep 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2007
  3. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Was Jesus always in perfect health while on earth?

    Oh I don’t believe so.
    If Jesus can be touched with our infirmities he must have experienced sickness. I believe this was a major part of his suffering in the Garden (Luke 22:44 sounds like sickness to me). We have a savior and a God who walked this earth as a man, a God who know what it is like to be hungry and tired. A God who knows what it is like to sore feet and a sore back after a hard days work; a God who can understand and relate to us in all ways. That’s a cool God!

    I know he never broke a bone because of prophecy but I believe he suffered all other typical diseases and injuries.
     
  4. LeBuick

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    Was it in one of the apocrypha books or was it Josephus where it said Jesus broke his arm as a child? Somebody might recall where that is.
     
  5. ReformedBaptist

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    Brethren,

    Let's derive our convictions and doctrine from Scripture for it alone is profitable for doctrine. There may be some Scriptures that may give us an impression that Jesus could have been sick, as the other brother pointed out. Nevertheless, I am not aware of any Scripture that teaches us he was. So the best answer is "I don't know"

    The idea that Jesus may have broken a bone is actually contrary to Scripture.

    Psalm 34:20 "He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken."

    Exodus 12:46 "In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof."

    Numbers 9:12 "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it."
     
  6. TCGreek

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    It may have been the gospel of thomas.
     
  7. TCGreek

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    NCT, my eyes are getting old; can you please oblige me with bigger fonts, Thank you.

    1. I thin Hebrews 4:15 is speaking of the weaknesses of the flesh in respect to temptations to sin.

    2. How can we speak of the profundity of Jesus' sweat drops of blood as pointing to sickness?
     
  8. saturneptune

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    The font is fine. I am in my mid 50's and it is quite readable. Everyone has a right to choose his or her own font.

    To get back to the op, it is a fascinating question, one I never thought of, physical sickness. It is hard to say. Sickness entered after Adam and Eve sinned, so since Jesus was sinless, maybe He did not get sick.

    On the other hand, because the whole world is in a fallen state, it could be God allowed Him to catch an illness just like any of us. Very thought provoking.
     
    #8 saturneptune, Sep 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2007
  9. LeBuick

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    You have a rough day at the Church ReformedBaptist?

    I don't see the nature of this thread being about scripture or doctrine. Look at the OP question, “Does that include never needing caffeine etc…” With the thread being trivial in nature I saw no restriction from adding thoughts of trivia.

    The references to Jesus having his bones broke are in relation to his death. Bones were broken in those days to speed along the death process. Jesus gave his life, it wasn’t taken from him which is the significance of his bones not being broken during his death.

    What would physical perfection matter in regards to our Savior? Would he be any less the Son of God? Would he be any less our Savior? Would physical perfection in Man’s eyes be the same as physical perfection in God’s eyes? Consider King Saul, he fit Man’s view of the perfect King. David, who didn’t fit the template, was God’s choice for King.

    Preach on my Brother…
     
  10. DHK

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    Press control and scroll down at the same time. The size of font will get larger as you scroll.
     
  11. ReformedBaptist

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    My day has been blessed, thank you. No rough day. I was simply urging that a question regarding our Lord Jesus be answered from Scripture.
     
  12. saturneptune

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    From Scripture or your opinion of Scripture?
     
  13. UnchartedSpirit

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    I don't think this question was as trivial as my intended post complaing about how I've missed more than 3 straight weeks of morning service because I can't get up in time w/o a caffene bost of any kind, but I thought it would be more stimulating for me to get you all to bicker over something...
     
  14. TCGreek

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    It became increasingly smaller. Kids, don't try this one at home! :laugh:
     
  15. Allan

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    I think, though we can not empirically state beyond the measure of scripture (nor should we have need to) if Jesus was ever sick with diseases or any sickness. I think the scriptures being the bar of highest authority never insinuates He was sick or ill in His adult life. But the question can be asked what about He youth and adolesents?

    I think the one of the promises to given to Israel sums up whether Jesus 'could have NOT been sick in any manner'.
    I cut it off there only because it begins to list many of the blessings that will come to those who listen, keep, and do these judgments, commandments, and statutes as stated in verse 11.

    WHat I wanted to take note of regarding these promises to those who listen, keep, and do, is in verse 15
    What is interesting is that as the Sevent and Lamb only part of those blessing are fulled to Him then (such as the sickness) but the other promises will not be fulfilled until He come again as King and Lion, which He will conquere His enemies, crush those who withstand Him, ext...

    Is He not the only one TRULY worthy to have the fulness of these blessing fulfilled in His perfect and sinless life which is promise to those who humbly obey?
    Israel who obeyed in part only had these blessing teporarally but Christ who ceased not to fulfill His Fathers commands in obedience to His Judgments, Commandments, and Statutes that the fulness of the blessings lie upon Him.

    Now as to needing caffine?? What does that have to do with perfect health?
     
    #15 Allan, Sep 16, 2007
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  16. Allan

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    Agreed TCGreek. There is a clinical reason for Jesus sweating blood and it was not sickness.
    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t018.html

    I thought this one was an interestin answer (almost the same except for the last part) at "askipedia.com"
    http://www.askipedia.com/askipedia-article-008-780.htm
     
  17. TCGreek

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  18. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Sorry TC, I don't know how it got that small. I can see what your saying, Heb 4:15 could be interpreted to refer to temptation alone. I don't believe that, but I see how it could. To me it seems more meaningful that Christ really understands all our trials.

    As brother Allan pointed out there is a medical condition that could relate to the blook like sweat. To me that still sounds more like illness than anything else. Caused by stress one way or another Jesus was clearly not well in the Garden.

    This point seems not addressed beyond question by scripture so it comes back to what you believe.
     
  19. rbell

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    My concern with an answer of "no, He wasn't sick" is because of where it takes us.

    The Prosperity gospel crowd preach that if you're "Godly" enough, you won't get sick...if your faith is strong enough, and if you "confess" the right stuff (e.g., "Say the right magic words"), the Spirit of Sinus Infections, Cancer demons, Constipation boogeymen, and Satan's Gout Henchmen will leave you. So of course, they'll argue that Jesus was never sick...and their reasoning will be woven into their answer.

    I'm fine with an "I don't know" answer (let's face it, Scripture never directly says). But if we say Jesus wasn't sick, it begs the question, "Why?" And I'm gonna avoid the "Good Christians never get sick" theology like the plague.

    It's totally a guess on my part...but I figure that since Christ was fully human as we, He had to put up with the frailties of humanity, as we do. I think (fully IMHO) that Jesus got the sniffles once or twice.
     
  20. Andy T.

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    I think the fact that Jesus slept gives us a clue that his human body was subject to the same frailties we all have. But I'm not sure the answer matters either way, otherwise it would have been clearly revealed to us through Scripture. And anyone forming a doctrine based on this question is looking for trouble (as shown in rbell's example above).
     

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