Was Jesus really born in a manger?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by BillyG, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. BillyG

    BillyG
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    I was listening to a professor at CIU, formerly Columbia Bible College that said Jesus was probably born at a friends house not in a manger with the livestock. He claims that the story has been westernized and that bad greek translation also added to this misconception.


    What say ye?


    Billy [​IMG]
     
  2. Johnv

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    Considering that the Gospel of Luke was written a mere 20 or so years after Jesus' death, and, considering that Luke's gospel was a personal letter written by one individual to one individual, and, considering that Luke was an educated and very literate man, and, considering that the Greek he used to write the nativity story is rather concise and clear in its contextual meaning, I would disagree with any conclusion similar to the OP.

    Caveat: The OP recalls "listening to a professor", but doesn't give the context of the comments, and doesn't give the commentator's name. Hence, the OP, imo, borders on gossip and rumor. We Christians are scripturally forbidden from engaging in rumor and gossip, and should be careful to refrain from turning this thread into a gossip session.
     
  3. PastorGreg

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    Jesus wasn't born in a manger. He was laid in a manger after His birth. [​IMG]
     
  4. BillyG

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    Caveat: The OP recalls "listening to a professor", but doesn't give the context of the comments, and doesn't give the commentator's name. Hence, the OP, imo, borders on gossip and rumor. We Christians are scripturally forbidden from engaging in rumor and gossip, and should be careful to refrain from turning this thread into a gossip session.

    Wow WHAT A PHARISEE!

    To answer your qustion I was listening to WMHK the radio station owned by CIU. The professor in question whose name slips my mind will be discussing this very topic tonight. Please feel free to shake your bells over to WMHK.com and listen live over the internet.

    BTW: We are also commanded not to judge motives.


    Billy :mad:
     
  5. Johnv

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    Now, Billy, don't get mad at me just because you failed to give all that information. And, I wasn't judging your motive. I was commenting on the context of the OP, not your motives. That's why I said that it "borders on" rumor and gossip. Clearly, you were not attempting to spread rumor and gossip.
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    Yep, Pastor Greg... exactly what I was about to say.
     
  7. BillyG

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    Now, Billy, don't get mad at me just because you failed to give all that information. And, I wasn't judging your motive. I was commenting on the context of the OP, not your motives. That's why I said that it "borders on" rumor and gossip. Clearly, you were not attempting to spread rumor and gossip.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It was the tone of you reply that was out of line, not the content.


    Billy [​IMG]
     
  8. Gwyneth

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    "Jesus wasn't born in a manger. He was laid in a manger after His birth. "

    That`s how I read it too Pastor [​IMG]
     
  9. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Luke 2:7:

    "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn."

    Guess that pretty much dispenses with the "professor".
     
  10. BillyG

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    The context of the professor message is that Jesus was born at a friends house, not in a barn filled with livestock.


    We are getting sidetracked I think.


    Billy :confused:
     
  11. BillyG

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    Luke 2:7:

    "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn."

    Guess that pretty much dispenses with the "professor"


    Give us some greek Bro. Jim, where is Dr. Bob when you need him.


    Billy
     
  12. Johnv

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    Okay, okay, maybe it was both. [​IMG]
     
  13. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Bill, don't buy into the line that only someone who can read Greek can understand even the most plain and simple teachings of Scripture. Big-headed folks like the "professor" - who are educated beyond their intelligence - want you to think that, because they think it puts them in the drivers seat.

    You're a smart guy...read your bible, and believe it. You'll be WAY, WAY ahead of the "professor", believe me.
     
  14. BillyG

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    Okay, okay, maybe it was both.


    It's friday, no big problem here my friend.

    Have a wonderful weekend.


    Billy [​IMG]
     
  15. prophecynut

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    This is new to me, Jesus born in a house? I know he was in a house when the wise men came to visit him at the age of about 2 years.

    Did research.
    On the basis of contemporary Arab practice and type of dwelling common in those days, the manger was located on the lower level and the upper level for the people.

    The manger could of been in a cave carved out of limestone near or under barns or inns. Several excavations at Megiddo have been uncovered like this, and considering the scarcity of wood in Palestine, very much a possibility.
     
  16. Johnv

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    More to the point, I don't know what Greek this guy is reading. The original Greek says the same thing as it does in English as far as the manger goes.
     
  17. LadyEagle

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    prophecynut is correct.

    The "professor" is the nut, IMO. :D
     
  18. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Luke 2:7:

    "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn."
     
  19. JGrubbs

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    G5336
    φάτνη
    phatnē
    fat'-nay
    From πατέομαι pateomai (to eat); a crib (for fodder): - manger, stall.

    Source: Strong’s Greek Dictionary

    In a manger (en phatnēi). In a crib in a stall whether in a cave (Justin Martyr) or connected with the inn we do not know. The cattle may have been out on the hills or the donkeys used in travelling may have been feeding in this stall or another near.

    Source: Robertson's Word Pictures

    Manger
    (Luk_2:7, Luk_2:12, Luk_2:16), the name (Gr. phatne, rendered “stall” in Luk_13:15) given to the place where the infant Redeemer was laid. It seems to have been a stall or crib for feeding cattle. Stables and mangers in our modern sense were in ancient times unknown in the East. The word here properly denotes “the ledge or projection in the end of the room used as a stall on which the hay or other food of the animals of travelers was placed.”

    Source: Easton Illustrated Bible Dictionary, 1897

    fatnee only in Luk_2:7; Luk_2:12; Luk_2:16, where the infant Jesus was laid, Luk_13:15 "the stall." The inn had apartments or cells above for travelers, and stalls for the cattle below. The upper platform, reached by steps, was probably occupied by the inn and its occupants; the lower level, from which the steps arose, was usually appropriated to cattle and goats, and on this occasion was used by Joseph and Mary on account of the crowded state of the regular inn or khan.

    Source: Fausset's Bible Dictionary

    Manger
    mān´jẽr (φάτνη, phátnē): Properly the place in a stall or stable where the food of cattle is placed (in the Old Testament “crib” (Job_39:9; Pro_14:4; Isa_1:3)); thus also, apparently, in the narrative of the nativity in Luk_2:7, Luk_2:12, Luk_2:16. In Septuagint, the Greek word, representing different Hebrew words, has also the extended meaning of “stall” (2Ch_32:28; Hab_3:17); thus also in Luk_13:15, where the Revised Version margin has “manger.” Old tradition says that Jesus was born in a cave in the neighborhood of Bethlehem; even so, a place for food for cattle may have been cut in the side of the rock.

    Source: The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia

    Manger. This word occurs only in Luk_2:7; Luk_2:12; Luk_2:16, in connection with the birth of Christ. It means a crib or feeding trough; but according to Schleusner, its real signification, in the New Testament, is the open court-yard attached to the inn or khan, in which the cattle would be shut at night, and where the poorer travellers might unpack their animals and take up their lodging, when they were, either by want or means, excluded from the house.

    Source: Smith's Bible Dictionary
     
  20. Ben W

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    A manger was a stable usually under a house. In poor areas of Palestine the houses are still built in the same fashion.
     

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