Was Mary a surrogate or did she contribute her seed to Jesus??

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
2233. zera`
Search for H2233 in KJVSL
erz zera` zeh'-rah
from 2232; seed; figuratively, fruit, plant, sowing-time, posterity:--X carnally, child, fruitful, seed(-time), sowing- time.

See Hebrew 2232

I believe the word posterity, or child is the only choice in interpretation. Christ was the seed, Christ was the child born to Mary.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

It was not that Mary had a seed, for women do not carry the seed. Mary bore the child into the world.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy child and her child; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I am reminded of the statement Jesus told the Pharisees, "Ye are of your father, the devil." The children of the serpent... the deceiver.

The seed was not carried within Mary prior to the Holy Spirit overshadowing her. The seed was of God, not man.

 

So He wasn't human, then; that takes us back to the docetic heresy. Thanks but no thanks; that was sorted out in John 1:1-14 and I John 1:1-6 and the refutation of the concept has been adhered to by the Church ever since.

Case closed.

[ETA - and bravo again, DHK! Twice in 24 hours we agree - it can only mean one thing: is that the clatter of apocalyptic hooves I hear? Look up, everyone!]

 

No I did not misread your posts. Rather what you wrote was an unwitting admission of the immaculate conception. You said,

What i think you meant was that if Jesus has carried Mary's blood, this means He had to have a sinful nature because Mary had a sinful nature. However what you actually said means that if Jesus carried Mary's blood, Mary would have to be free from sin for Jesus to be free from sin. So if Mary was free from sin then it would be plausible that she could be His biological mother who contributed half of His DNA. Guess what? Those who believe in the immaculate conception believe that is why Mary was created free from original sin.

 

The second Adam's race is Human as well.

The Bible clearly says Adam's race is the First Adam, and Jesus is the Second Adam, Read 1 Cor 15 !

How can you say Jesus is not Human if He belongs to the Second Adam?

Do you know the meaning of Adam?

 

As Zenas stated, you just made the case for the RC Immaculate Conception. What you believe regarding us inheriting Adam’s sin is Augustinian theology and Augustine was a huge Western Church Father. Furthermore, the early Reformers took Augustine’s theology and developed it further.

Orthodoxy as did the Early Church believes and teaches that man inherits Adam’s death, not his sin, but we are in a fallen state and we choose to eventually sin. In Jesus’ case He identifies with His fallen creation by taking on human flesh from a woman and Jesus did die, but His human nature’s desire to sin submitted to His divine nature and thus He never sinned (Of course this is just skimming the surface, the theology is much deeper).

ICXC NIKA
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Not to be picky, but those who believe in the Immaculate Conception have no such understanding as to the reason Mary was created free from original sin. It has nothing to do with not passing a "sin nature" to Jesus, but is rather based on an understanding of the nature of God.

For those that have concluded that God could not have used Mary's DNA for this reason though, placing this sort of limitation on the power of God is quite puzzling to me.

 

Do I deny Virgin Birth? You must note that I presented the virgin Birth of Jesus by a Surrogate Mother !

Seed meant the Descendant so many times in the Bible. In most case it meant the Biological relationship, but in this case, this is the only and unique case, and the Fundamental Truth is that Word became Flesh.

Do you mean Woman made the Christ? Woman produced the Christ?
It means that Christ came out of Woman.

By surrogate relationship.

By surrogate motherhood, she conceived by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit worked out that.

So, you are admitting that the sinners egg became sinless person, right?

If God can change the sinful woman's egg into sinless person, why didn't He do it for many people? Jesus came as the Second Adam thru His surrogate mother.

He was still God Himself while He was on this Earth though He didn't use that title with some exceptions when Thomas called Him my God. This is not a problem here. The most problem is how you can compromise with Word became Flesh when you claim Mary is the Biological Mother.
If the egg was used, was it stimulated by the Holy Spirit, or processed by or inspired by the Holy Spirit? Why doesn't He do it for all the eggs of the world?

As if I denied it !

You have misunderstood the Bible quite a lot.
Jer 22:30 says he would be childless. How come Joseph become his descendant?
What the Bible said there is that Jesus would not come as a King of David's famil, which actually come true. The royal family was finished.
Jesus is the King of Kings.

Was the Nathan's family sinless?
Was Mary sinless?
If Jesus couldn't take anything from the body of Joseph because his family was sinful, the same applies to the Mary's family as well.

What Roman Catholic claims today is that The Blood of Jesus shed at the Cross came from the body of Mary, and even the body of Jesus was a part of Mary, which the Bible clearly rejects as it says " Word became Flesh"

What you have to convince is how you can compromise between

Word became Flesh
and
Mary is the Biological Mother, not the Surrogate Mother.

If anything of Mary was used to form the body of Jesus, it means Flesh ( of Mary) became Flesh ( of Jesus), and therefore you are denying the fundamental Truth.

If Any flesh, or Blood, or cell, or egg ( or Ovum) of Mary was used, Jesus would have been born as a sinner, which is untrue.

 

DHK,

The fundamental problem with your statement is here:

What you are saying is :
If the Humanity came from Joseph, then the Sin nature could be inherited to Jesus, but if the Human nature came from Mary, then Jesus could be sinless.


Wow !

You will be awarded the great prize for supporting Immaculate Conception !

Do you know that the sin entered thru Woman ?
Adam was not deceived but woman was deceived in the transgression ( 1 Tim 2:14) ?

Do you know that Man and Woman are equally guilty of all the sins of the world?

If Jesus couldn't inherit anything from Joseph, then the same applies to Mary, as well.

 

It seems very clear to me in Isaiah 7:14 that Mary did, in fact, contribute her egg.

And also in Luke 1:26-35

And finally, Matthew 1:18-23

 

"Word became Flesh " stands firm forever.

Not the flesh became flesh in case of Jesus Christ.

If Flesh ( ovum) of Mary became Jesus, where was gone the Jesus who met Abrahm ( John 8:56-58)

Where was Jesus gone who wrestled with Jacob ( Gn 31) and whom Moses worked for ( Heb 11:26)?

 

Matthew 1:20

The important point is that the bible says:



Το γαρ εν αυτη γεννηθεν εκ Πνευματοσ εστιν Αγιου



"The One in her is born by the Holy Spirit" ( not the conceived)

How come the angel said that Jesus was alredy born by the Holy Spirit in Mary even before He was born out of Mary yet?

 

Today, HUman Cloning is possible, and Woman's egg alone can become a Human Embryo by the addition of skin cell without Sperm.

That's not the Tech used for Incarnation of Jesus.

Word became Flesh simply, without any Flesh.

This is the Fundamental Truth of Christianity.

 

If Mary was nothing more than a oven for Jesus than how is He Son of Man?

Now, I understand why people try and downplay Mary, mostly it comes as a reaction to the RCC's idolatry of her, but to completely write her out of the story, that is a new one.

 

Jesus was the seed. Mary did not contribute seed, because she did not carry a seed in the first place.

As I showed in a previous post, 'seed' means posterity or child. Mary gave birth to Jesus He was the first of her offspring. His birth however was not the result of the union of a man and a woman, but rather miraculous.

"A body though hast prepared me"

God had a specific flesh body prepared for His Son. God did all the Work. By His very Word Mary became pregnant with His Son just as by His very Word this world was spoken into existence.

Was Mary a surrogate mother? Absolutely!

 

Mary wasn't Jesus's "surragate " mother she was and is his mother. How could she be anything else. Luke 1:31 "Behold you will concieve in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call him Jesus" I have given birth to two son's that were concieved in my womb and I am their mother, they have an earthly father, Jesus's has a heavenly father. Why should Mary not be considered Jesus's mother?

 

Mary was Jesus' mother. Surrogate. She did not provide the egg that needed to be fertilized. If she had provided the egg, Jesus would have inherited sinful flesh. He did not. He was God in the flesh. He did not become sin who knew no sin until He was nailed to that cross. That is when the sin of humanity was taken upon Himself.

 

Jesus has been the only and unique One who was born by the Word.

When a surrogate mother conceive a baby she says the same, and will hear " Behold you will conceive in your womb and bear a son ( or a daughter), ..."

Everything is the same as the Biological Mother, but the difference is that Mary carried a baby born by the Holy Spirit, the complete Human Embryo.

If you disagree, please explain How Word of God became flesh ! ( John 1:14).

Otherwise, you are not believing the Bible in that verse.

 

Another Adam. Exactly the same as the First Adam, another Adam was come from Word of God

No, more than that.
We have to return to the Bible.
If Jesus is the biological son of Mary, then He would have inherited the sinful nature of Mary. This is unavoidable. Catholics say that the Blood shed at the Cross was inherited from Mary and the same Blood was shed there for the human beings, which is nonsense.

Moreover, the Ovum is not designed for fertilization with Word, but with a Sperm.

No Sinful nature of Mary was transmitted to Jesus.

Sin entered the world, but Jesus came to this world in order to rescue the Adam's race. He came as the second Adam, exactly same as the first Adam, but proved that the Adam could have completely obeyed God, which the first Adam failed.

I thought the Bible Baptists are very much strict to the Bible.

Please check John 1:14 in your Bible. and read 1 Cor 15 and John 8:23

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


Jn 8
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

 

Careful, Eliyahu,

They will accuse you of teaching the immaculate conception as they did me.

They truly do not understand that is was all God and nothing of man.

 

Again your sounding like Augustine of the Catholic Church…Man didn’t inherit Adam’s sin from eating the forbidden fruit; man inherited the consequences of Adam’s sin, which is death…big difference. We are born with the tendency to sin through our freewill and it’s our human nature to sin, thus we will eventually rebel and sin…we are all sinners.

Jesus on the other hand, took flesh from Mary…Christ inherited not Adam’s sin, but Adam’s death…Christ died by the hands of the Romans. Christ died a physical death, just as we all will, tarry His coming. Christ’s two natures…human and divine was fully present the moment Mary agreed to bear the Son of God.

Jesus was tempted, but His human will, humanities tendency to sin, was subdued by His Divine will, thus Jesus was sinless.

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