Was the promise of John 16:13 given to all believers or just to the apostles?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by michael-acts17:11, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11
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    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    There are so many different belief systems from Calvinists to Armenians, hyper dispensationalists to hyper preterists, amellenials to premillenials and every possible variation in between, local church only to local & universal church. Every group claims the enlightenment of the Spirit for their own beliefs & accuse others of being in the darkness of Biblical ignorance. Now, I cannot believe that there are not members of each of the multitudinous groups who are earnestly seeking the truth & praying the Father to guide them with the Holy Spirit.

    Therefore, if John 16:13 is for all believers of all ages till the Second Coming, then why does the Spirit not bring us all into perfect theological harmony with each other? Why is there so much divergence among the brethren who are all indewelled by the same Spirit of God? What are your thoughts?
     
  2. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    There are no easy answers. Or, if there are, I don't have them. And some answers lead to more questions.

    For instance, does being indwelt by the Spirit automatically mean that I am being led by the Spirit into truth? If that's the case, then I have a problem, because I have changed my views about several things over the years.

    I think the views I hold now are right. Does that mean that I was not led by the Spirit before, and am now? Or, that I was led by the Spirit then, but not now?

    Did any of you ever change your views?

    One of the most spiritual and Biblically knowledgeable men I've ever known held some different views on eschatology and ecclesiology from mine. Was one of us led by the Spirit and not the other one? If yes, then he was the one, because I couldn't hold a candle to him spiritually and Biblically.

    To be sure, there are some doctrines which, if you get 'em wrong, you are by definition not led by the Spirit. Baptismal regeneration, any form of works salvation, and falling from grace come to mind.

    So here's my answer to the OP question: I dunno.
     
    #2 Tom Butler, Aug 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2012
  3. OldRegular

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    I believe it applies to all believers. However, the passage does not say the Holy Spirit will open your skull and dump all truth into your head.

    The passage says: he will guide you into all truth. To me that means as we study He will guide us. The Apostle Paul told Timothy: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. [2 Timothy 2:15]

    It is also a fact that we bring to our study preconceived notions which may hinder both our study and the Holy Spirit. Like Tom I have changed my understanding of some things over the years. For example: I have always believed that Salvation was a supernatural transaction. However, I once believed that my response was an essential part in that event. After some years of both study and observation of certain people I came to believe strongly in the Doctrines of Grace, which some pejoratively call Calvinism. And I must say that faith is an essential part of the Doctrines of Grace.

    My views on Eschatology have not changed. They were shaped by my upbringing among Old Regular Baptists and I have found nothing in Scripture to change my understanding. I will say here and now that I believe those things I heard from those Old Regular Baptist Saints including my father and mother [I have been away from there since I was 21 except for visits.] have shaped my understanding of Scripture, Salvation, and God more than my 46+ years among Southern Baptists.
     
  4. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I have recently read about your Old Regular Baptist tradition; I wasn't as familiar with it as I was with the Primitive Baptists. I must say that I found the ORBs fascinating. There are none near me; I would like to visit one of their churches.

    I just found out last week that the nearest Primitive Baptist church to me -- Shiloh, near Coffeeville -- had closed. I had meant to visit there years ago but never was able to. I was sad to hear that it closed. The building was one of those old-fashioned, white frame ones that I talked about in another thread, off the beaten path, nestled among some pines, tranquil and solitary.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    The passage was only for the Apostles,and yet we benefit from what they wrote; To see it clearly you need to read jn 14,15,16, 17,...as a unit
    Then you will see this:

    Note when the Spirit comes....he brings to the Apostles remembrance things they heard and were taught directly by Jesus...none of us qualify for that.

    Paul, was credentialled by the other apostles.

     
  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    :applause::applause::applause:
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Think THAT was a specific promise to the Apostles, that the Sprit would inspire them, and thus preserve exactly what God wanted us to know of Him , as they would be writting down divine revelation!

    Think our promise today would be from 1 John 2:20-22, as God gives us the Spriit, and he will lead us and guide us into knowing the biblical truths!
     
  8. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11
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    This is along the lines of what I believe. The Spirit's working in the Apostles was a one time event which laid the foundation for the Church. Those who believe the church began with the apostles generally hold the view that all commands & promises given to them were given to the church.

    If we believe all of the different churches & individuals who claim direct Holy Spirit revelation for all of their differing doctrines, then me must conclude that the Spirit has a major split personality disorder. The hardest people to convince of the truth are those who rely on an emotional feeling as though it were the inspiration of God.
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    the Holy Spirit has his illuminating work towards us, to reveal the written word to our hearts and minds, BUT, we still need to do due diligence and to be walking and abiding in Jesus, for he will not be blessing with wisom either a saint sloppy in his bible studies, nor one walking in unconfessed sins!

    Also, very good sign that its NOT the real Spirit granting His 'revelation" if novel idea NEVER held in the Church, or it denies rest of the scriptures!
     
  10. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11
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    I agree with you, and yet we disagree elsewhere. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Thanks to Iconoclast for your exegesis in post #5. After reading your post, I think I agree with you.
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    We still benefit in that Peter says we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness. While not guided directly in the same way as the apostles, we understand nothing unless the Spirit allows us to!

    Well meaning christians take this verse and run wild with it.many errors come from this.

    here it is in 1 jn4
    6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    early on the Apostles established the word of God that was given to them as authoritative. We seek to understand that perfect word,as the Spirit allows us.

    Also we see this actually spoken of in Acts 11:15-18
    15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

    16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

    17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

    18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
     
    #12 Iconoclast, Aug 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2012
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    And those would be?
     

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