Was The Rich Young Ruler Lost Eternally?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Every one on here is familiar with this story and if others want to post the same story from Matthew and Mark by all means do so... This young ruler in his life set a high standard and I can truly say that I admire him because he said he kept the law of Moses from his youth up and how many of us can claim that?... Yet Jesus said he lacked one thing and to get that one thing to sell all that he had, distribute it to the poor and he would have treasures in heaven if he came and followed Jesus... And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich... And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God... Is this story teaching us that this rich young ruler was eternally lost?... In Mark 10:21 the writer say after Jesus heard all that this young ruler had kept from his youth up... Then Jesus beholding him loved him... That is strange that he loves him one minute and dams him to eternal damnation the next... I believe this teaches that the law cannot save you only the shed blood of the spotless lamb of God Jesus Christ can... It's not that rich people will never enter heaven but that their riches of the things in this world will draw them away from the Kingdom Of God and the treasures contain therein... There are rich people that follow the Lord and they are in our churches but can any of them live up to the standard that the rich ruler set?... Any of our riches are in our Lord and Savior that we follow and we are not saved by the Law but by he who fulfilled that law Jesus Christ the Righteous and any who are saved are saved by him even the rich young ruler!... Brother Glen

    Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

    18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

    18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

    18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

    18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

    18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

    18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

    18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

    18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
     
    #1 tyndale1946, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  2. Pastor_Bob

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    All we know is that this rich, young ruler did not accept the Lord Jesus Christ at this time. There's no way we can know for certain if he did at some point later in life or not.

    I have heard it speculated that this rich young ruler is the rich man at who's gate the beggar Lazarus lay. Obviously, there is no way we can know this for sure.
     
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  3. Jerome

    Jerome
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    "Concerning the rich young ruler of whom it is said Christ "loved him" (Mark 10:21), we fully believe that he was one of God's elect and was "saved" sometime after his interview with our Lord. . . . It is written, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out," and this man certainly did "come" to Him." —Arthur Walkington Pink, The Sovereignty of God
     
  4. kyredneck

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    ??? He ran to Christ, kneeled before Him, and saluted Him with language intended for the divine. Christ loved him, and did not dispute his claim of doing no ill towards his neighbor. The evidence points to this young man being circumcised in heart. Where he messed up is when he asked, "What lack I yet"? And Christ says, 'if you would be perfect sell all and follow me'. Christ actually put it forth to him to become His disciple, and he balked. I agree with Edersheim on this, 'saved' here is not in reference to the eternal salvation of the soul but of entering into the benefits of the kingdom, i.e., Christendom.

    This is just a photo snap shot of this young man at this moment in time, just as with Nicodemus in Jn 3. Who knows that he did not indeed later on join with the saints in Jerusalem who sold all and held everything in common.

    I choose not to judge him harshly.

    "Concerning the rich young ruler of whom it is said Christ "loved him" (Mark 10:21), we fully believe that he was one of God's elect and was "saved" sometime after his interview with our Lord. . . . It is written, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out," and this man certainly did "come" to Him." A.W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God
     
  5. kyredneck

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    If this is a requirement for him to go to heaven it kinda sorta messes with the notion of the 'free gift' of eternal life, don't you think?
     
    #5 kyredneck, Mar 6, 2016
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  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I definitely do and this illustrates he was heaven bound or there is no eternal security... Not that he earned it in anyway Jesus he was talking to earned it for him... Brother Glen
     
  7. DHK

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    The story teaches many things, particularly about the condition of the rich man.
    He broke the law. He was covetous. He went away sorrowful for he coveted his riches more than he desired Christ.
    He was idolatrous. He made his riches an idol. They came between him and Christ. Anything that comes between an individual and Christ is an idol.
    He was a liar. Jesus used the Ten Commandments (or the law) to demonstrate that he had not kept them from his youth up as he had claimed. He had broken them. He demonstrated that through his covetousness.

    But most of all this entire episode teaches Christ's love for all, unconditional love for the world. There was no one who came to him who he ever turned away. He loved him though the rich man would not trust him. There is no evidence that he would ever trust him, and that is what Jesus implied when he said: "How hardly shall a rich man enter into the kingdom of God...I say unto you it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
    But he still loved him. Nowhere do we have evidence that Christ loved only the elect.
    Just the opposite is true.
    His command is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." Our neighbor is the world--everyone we meet; everyone we can possible reach.
     
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  8. kyredneck

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    Odd that Christ never told him that, not odd for you though. It simply states that 'Christ loved him'.

    Are you intentionally scrambling the sequence of events? The young man's question was:

    17.... what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? Mk 10

    Christ's answer was:

    19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor thy father and mother. Mk 10

    So you say Christ was just yanking his string and not being forthright with His answer. This question was posed to Him at another time from another man and He gave the same answer. He made the same statement in the Sermon on the Mount with 'the golden rule'. Paul stated the same thing in the letter to the Romans:

    8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

    You think it's impossible for this young man to have had agape for his neighbor? You think Christ was yanking Nathanael's string too when He told him "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"?

    20 And he said unto him, Teacher, all these things have I observed from my youth. Mk 10

    No where in the context did Christ dispute that statement. It says that Christ loved him.
     
    #8 kyredneck, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  9. Revmitchell

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    There is no biblical evidence that he was ever saved and there is no biblical evidence that he was eternally lost. What we do know is he was walked away lost at that moment. Anything more said is pure speculation.
     
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  10. kyredneck

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    A lost sheep is not a goat.

    It's not speculation that Christ did not dispute his claim of working no ill toward his neighbor or that Christ loved him.
     
  11. DHK

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    1. Jesus loved him.
    2. It is not mere speculation, as Rev pointed out, that he walked away "lost" at that point in time.
    Conclusion: Jesus loved all: both saved and unsaved; both elect and non-elect.
    We cannot draw a conclusion of this man's eternal destiny based on the one fact that "Jesus beholding him loved him."
     
  12. kyredneck

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    Compare:

    21 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. MK 10

    1 Now before the feast of the passover, Jesus knowing that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto his Father, having loved his own that were in the world, he loved them unto the end. Jn 13

    With:

    42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. Jn 8

    33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell? Mt 23

    Christ loved His own.
     
    #12 kyredneck, Mar 8, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  13. Martin Marprelate

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    I'm with Pink on this one, but the reason that our Lord referred the RYR to the law was to convict him of sin. The law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. He thought he kept the commandments, but the Lord Jesus caught him out with covetousness.

    I take heart that the RYR went away 'sorrowful.' If he'd gone away indignant or laughing or indifferent, that would have been a bad sign, but he went away sorrowful because he was convicted of his sin. I am pretty sure that he was back to our Lord within a day or two.
     
  14. kyredneck

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    You're doing what the majority do here and forcing the text to mean this. RYR asked a legitimate question and Christ gave him a legitimate answer. Every heavenly born child of God with the law written upon their hearts will do my nature the golden rule.

    13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
    14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
    15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

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    1. I don't think my reply is the majority understanding.
    2. If it were, it would not ipso facto mean it was wrong.
    3. I do not see that I am forcing the text. The RYR asks a question about how he is to gain eternal life and our Lord does not say, "Just raise you hand and come to the front" or "Just repeat this sinners' prayer." He refers him to the Commandments. There is a reason for that. The RYR has no sense of his own personal sin, and without a sense of sin there will be no repentance and without repentance there is no salvation (Luke 13:5; Acts 26:20).
    Careful! 'I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, the Christ died in vain' (Gal. 2:21). Every heavenly-born child of God with the law written upon his heart desires by nature to keep the commandments.
    Careful again! This is part of Paul's great argument that no one, Jew or Gentile, is righteous before God. 'Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin) (Rom. 3:20). "For I say to you [His disciples v.1] that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees [cf. Luke 18:11-12] you will by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:20). That sort of righteousness does not come from keeping the commandments, but by faith in, and union with, Jesus Christ the Righteous One.
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Such statements misrepresent those situations and lack a level of integrity.
     
  17. Martin Marprelate

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    I don't believe they do either of those things.
     
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  18. percho

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    And therein lies the key. Even that in red is not enough to give one eternal life.

    Gal 3:21 NKJV Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.

    Take the law totally out of the equation. Romans 5:13,14 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    Death came also to those above in red.

    And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: KJV Matt 19:16,part of 17.

    Eternal life equated to, entering the kingdom of God V 24 equated to, being saved V 25

    Verse 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. ----- It is impossible for a man to do anything in order to enter the kingdom of God, be saved, inherit eternal life. ------- John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    Verse 27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? --- In the kingdom of God?

    Verse 28 YLT And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;

    Matthew 20

    V's 20,21 KJV Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

    22 & 23 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

    Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? ---- Drink of his cup.
    4,5 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ---- By the gift of the Holy Spirit
    For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    Only the writer of Mark stated Jesus loved him. How did that writer know that? Was he the RYR? Had he been given the Spirit of Truth? Will he be baptized with the baptism Jesus was baptized with?
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    No one believes that they get saved by raising their hand and coming to the front. No one believes they get saved because they repeated a prayer.

    It has just gotten to the point where we cannot find a reason to disagree without misrepresenting what we disagree over.
     
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  20. DHK

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    Sure, Jesus loved his own. But he also loved many others. He loved the world, that is to say, all that are in the world. (John 3:16). There is no one that Christ never turned away.
    --His power to save is not confined to the elect.

    Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
    --He able to save them to the uttermost.
    Simply put the verse says:
    (ISV) Therefore, because he always lives to intercede for them, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him.
    --Whoever comes to him he is able to save.

    Did God love Abel more than Cain. No. Both were given an equal opportunity to serve and worship him through the same sacrifice. Cain chose works; Abel chose faith. One cannot blame God for the choices they made out of their own free will.

    Notice the way that this man wanted to worship Christ. He had his own thinking; his own way:
    Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
    --What must I do? He already believed that salvation was to be earned through good works or through the keeping of the law. Perhaps that is another reason Jesus used the law. He couldn't keep the law even if he tried. He said he kept the law, but it was a lie.

    Jesus loves all. He loved Judas Iscariot though He knew he would betray him. He called him as one of his disciples. He made him as the treasurer. He sent him out with the others to cast out demons. He had the same power. He treated him just like the others and no less. He loved him just the same, and no less. He gave him every opportunity to repent, and yet he didn't. Salvation for Judas had to be of his free will. Christ would not force him to make any decision, but would provide every opportunity. In the end it was Judas that betrayed him in spite of the love that Christ bestowed upon him.

    To say that "he loved his own" does not mean that he did not love others. That is a false conclusion.
     
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