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Featured Washington’s Al Qaeda doesn’t exist and never did

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Nice theory. Here's the reality.

    Sanctions on Iranian oil took hold in 2012. Oil prices have dropped since then. Iran is still selling oil, just not to Western countries. They are still the top ten oil exporters.

    The U.S. is now a net exporter of oil. Largely because of the U.S. exports supply has caught up with world demand. If Iran were to try to sell their oil now they might not find buyers unless they severely discounted their price. But of course OPEC would not let them do that.
     
    #61 InTheLight, Dec 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2013
  2. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Poncho, if you are going to say that Iran is not working on the atomic bomb and ICBMs, then you are also statistically likely to say that there is no Santa Claus, and if there is no Papa Noel, then I'm getting nothin' for Christmas and I was a good boy. (St. Nick, I believe in you.)
     
  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    CMG if you are going to say that Iran is working on the atomic bomb and ICBMs then you are responsible to prove it.

    Until you do the claim remains nothing more than an allegation based on the heated rhetoric of those who have already been proven as liars. They've already filled the air with enough imaginary threats of "mushroom clouds in the future" now let's see the proof.

    Just show me the proof CMG.
     
    #63 poncho, Dec 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2013
  4. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Please provide the links this information come from. I know it didn't all come from your brain.

    You are right about OPEC they'd rather have the "international community" drop bombs on the whole middle east and kill millions rather than lose a buck in profit.

    If my theory is incorrect then so be it. At least I'm trying to put all the facts together and think for myself.

    What do your corporate sponsored experts say? What's their theory? "we have to bomb Iran because they might maybe could possibly someday be a threat in the future" Oh yeah and let's not forget to toss in the misleading misquote of the century to "strengthen our case against Iran" while we're at it.
     
    #64 poncho, Dec 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2013
  5. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Poncho, you have claimed that Al Qaeda has never been much of a threat but they are daily in the news--just the other day they bombed a hospital.

    You are saying that Iran is not working on an atomic bomb. However, Israel refutes you rather easily:

    Cal Thomas has called Obama's plan, which you imply that you support, another Munich:

    Ultra liberal Democrat Alan Dershowitz complained on Book TV in November that Obama had agreed to release Iranian assets in exchange for some words that Iran would not continue to build an atomic bomb. He has since been openly joined by some US Senate Democrats who are against this Obama deal. Even the Saudis, who have much to fear from a nuclear Iran, have hinted that they might join Israel in a military action against Iran in that Israel could use their air bases in an attack against Iran.

    Poncho, on this Christmas Eve, I don't see how you can promise the American people that we will be safe from Iranian nuclear armed ICBMs striking Washington DC or the cities of Europe or Jerusalem.

    Your foreign policy, Poncho, and the foreign policy of the Obama Democrats on the war against terror is a blueprint for US defeat.
     
  6. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    Recently, my question has been: why can't we (America) step in and provide nuclear power for these countries that want it, but that we don't want to have the weapons capability? We could build and staff the plants, and even secure them with (non-military) security. Sell them the power, and any profit above expenses goes to national debt. All while creating jobs for Americans and providing quality of life for others.
     
  7. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. I have claimed Al Qaeda isn't the centralized global threat the "news" people say it is. Maybe you haven't noticed but every time something happens the "news" people all fly into a tizzy and blame "Al Qaeda" even when no actual act of terrorism is involved. Not until just recently have the "news" people been moving to blame "right wing extremists" and "lone wolf domestic terrorists" for every act of violence. They are shifting away from blaming Al Qaeda and putting YOU in the crosshairs now. You are a Christian right? Then YOU are probably a "terrorist", you are pro life right? Then YOU are probably a "terrorist". There's lots of things Americans do that the "authorities" consider suspicious behavior and a sign YOU may be a "terrorist" now. Like wearing nice jeans or being polite or having a camera.

    But you wouldn't know any of this because YOU WON"T READ THEIR POLICY PAPERS AND TRAINING MANUALS.

    I love ya CMG I really do but I'm getting a little tired of being told I don't know what I'm talking about by someone that refuses to become informed.

    Nope never said Iran wasn't working on an atomic bomb. What I keep saying to is SHOW ME THE PROOF THAT IRAN IS WORKING ON AN ATOMIC BOMB!

    So far you have been unable to do that.

    Israel has been saying Iran will have an atomic bomb within days since 1994!

    Okay, SHOW ME THE PROOF!

    Can't you do your own thinking?


    Okay, but WHERE'S THEIR PROOF?


    CMG I don't see how on any day you can make a claim with no PROOF!

    Yeah yeah we already know you got the neocon's "Georing Factor" propaganda down pat and can recite it in your sleep but here's the problem.

    You and they GOT NO PROOF!

    All you got is scare tactics.

    Let's take a trip down memory lane. Saddam's got WMDS! Saddam is working on an atomic bomb! Saddam is working on pilotless drones! Mushroom clouds! Mushroom Clouds! Mushroom Clouds! Saddam is going to kill us all! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! Run for your lives! Saddam Saddam Saddam!!! Attack! Attack! Attack!

    Okay so after we dropped tons of bombs and caused the death of a million Iraqis and turned a million more into refugess guess what?

    The only "wmds" Saddam had were marked made in the USA and the UK. There was no nuclear weapons program. There was no pilotless drones. There were no mushroom clouds.


    So what happened? We was neoconned!That's what happened!

    We got an old saying in Tennessee "neocon me once shame on you, neocon me twice shame on me".

    Do you enjoy being lied to and manipulated or something CMG?



     
    #67 poncho, Dec 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2013
  8. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Merry Christmas!
     
  9. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Guess this means Santa isn't going to deliver the PROOF I've been asking for all week right?

    SHOW ME THE PROOF.
     
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Poncho, it would be proper to assume that since there is no nuclear attack underway by Iran at this moment that Iran is not quite ready at this very second. Therefore, it can by that logic be proven that at this moment Iran does not have the atomic bomb and the ICBMs in full military capability. Therefore, you and Obama are correct on that tiny point.

    However, the GOP disagrees with everything else that you and Obama have said.
     
  11. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The GOP also disagrees with me about nation building, limited constitutional government, going further into debt to keep failed policies going, funding and arming terrorists, being allied with dictatorial regimes that sponsor terrorism, having a debt free sound money, auditing the Federal reserve, warrant-less spying, holding Obama accountable for his crimes against the US, banker bailouts, honoring their oath to protect and defend the constitution, indefinite detention without due process, executing American citizens without due process, torture, the SPP and other sovereignty robbing globalization policies like NAFTA GATT and the TPP, using the military to police the civilian population, building a Stasi style police state just to name a few things.

    So what? The GOP has rejected conservatism, individual liberty and just about every other principle this nation was founded on in favor of big intrusive big brother style government, endless fear mongering and Trotsky style endless warfare that only benefits a few of their corporate sponsors.

    So I should be worried that the GOP disagrees with me?

    Ha! I don't think so. Today's republicans are just yesterday's authoritarian democrats. Yer dern tootin the GOP is gonna disagree with anyone that still holds to traditional conservative ideals and the founding principles that made this country free independent and prosperous.

    That's why the corporatist estabilshment RINOS you support are working so hard to demonize everyone that disagrees with them just like the democrats they pretend to disagree with. The democrats call people that disagree with them racists the RINOS call people that disagree with them unpatriotic, liberals, democrats, pacifists, and a danger to national security.

    Same Nazi party style tactics using different words ala the "Goering Factor".

    “Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering

    In case you missed it here's the "Goering Factor" again.

    Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

    That is the classic neocon talking point today. Taken straight from the Nazi playbook.

    It doesn't bother me that the tyrants and pretenders from either wing of the big intrusive Stasi corporatist party disagree with me.

    What bothers me most is watching all you guys take part in this system of filth day after day year after year just arguing about which pool of scum is better to swim in. I think over the years we've covered about every reason that this scum looked less scummier than that scum over there.

    Forget the Iranians and all that for a minute. Just answer me one question. Why do we have to swim in scum?
     
    #71 poncho, Dec 25, 2013
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  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    What the GOP has rejected is your charge that there is one foreign policy and that your policy is unique when your policy is merely that of the Obama administration.
     
  13. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    That's fine like I said the GOP has rejected every principle this nation was founded on and has somehow convinced "the faithful" that the political ideals of Leo Strauss, Leon Trotsky and Niccolo Machiavelli are much better for us.

    Just look at how much better off we are since the neocons co opted the GOP. :tonofbricks:
     
    #73 poncho, Dec 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  14. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Hello Poncho and Baptist Board members. I've been away for a while and see upon my return much of the same old things are still being hashed out. I've enjoyed reading this thread this morning and have a question for you Poncho.

    Have you considered that the Establishment has at least two major factions if not more, and those differing factions are often at odds with each other? I think the politicians, though, as you have pointed, are slave to the corporatists by debt, yet they are not always willing participants in the corporatists machinations. The politicians are more concerned with power and global imperial dominance than with corporate profits. Sometimes the politician's goals take precedent over the banksters due to changes in the relationships between the factions. For example, the banksters have the money, but the politicians have the "dirt" on them. So sometimes the bankers have to march to the politician's tune.

    So the end game is not always clear. It may depend on who has the upper hand at the time. I think this is the only way we can systematically understand world economic/political affairs. What do you think?
     
  15. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Hello JD welcome to this uh, discussion.

    Yes.
    But for the most part it's just theater to score political points to keep their "party" or fellow tribal members from revolting and going to the "dark side" of individual liberty, constitutional government and our founding principles.

    Most all the western governments have been enslaved by debt. Think about it. The "global economy" is controlled by "global bankers" that have the system set up so all their profits are privatized while all their loses are socialized.

    The politicians role in this system it to make sure the wealth keeps flowing from the people to the government by threat or use of government force so it can then hand it over to the global bankers. It's a global corporatist system and the politicians from both factions play their role in it very well. Politicians that see the system for what it is and dare question or speak out against it are scorned and demonized as members of some dangerous anarchist fringe element that wants to topple the government.

    How anyone can believe the government is the one in control in this type of arraignment is beyond my powers of comprehension. It's not like they try to hide it. SEE THIS

    Politicians are most concerned about winning elections. That takes money lot's of it. If a corporation is willing to put enough money in the politician's hat then that politician will dance to that corporation's tune. Who is the greater in that relationship?

    The goal of most politicians is to stay in office.

    I think the only way to look at and understand world economic/political affairs is the way Jesus told us to look at them. As outsiders. Not as willing participants with a vested interest in keeping one side or the other in power.

    But hey like CMG would tell us the GOP disagrees with this to so that must make Jesus and I democrats.

    Does that answer your question JD?
     
    #75 poncho, Dec 26, 2013
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  16. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Thanks for reminding me that most politicians primary motivation is getting elected. Very true.

    I didn't understand your use of "outsiders". Can you expand on that? Who is the outsider, what are they outside of?
     
  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The bible makes it pretty clear that the followers of Christ are not of this world. We're not to be conformed to this world. We are instead to be witnesses for Christ and I believe that obligation extends beyond preaching the gospel and voting for the lesser of two evils.

    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2

    See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. Colossians 2:8

    Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Ephesians 5:11

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

    Okay now go look around at all the threads in the politics forum. What do you see?

    Do you see Christians living up to these obligations or do you see republicans and democrats diligently working to expose the darkness of their rivals while doing their utmost to justify the darkness within their own political ranks?

    Do you see Christians that are free from worldly influences to make judgements on the merits of what is good and acceptable and perfect or do you see party faithfuls arguing over who's political party should be in control of government?

    In my mind the bible is pretty clear that's it's not a matter of left vs right it's matter of right vs wrong. It's not a matter of conservative vs liberal it's a matter of good vs evil. It's not matter of which pool of scum is better to swim in it's a matter of not swimming in the scum because we become infected and defiled by it.

    Period.

    But of course the GOP rejects this notion as well because exposing the GOP's darkness too much is off limits if you want to remain a republican in good standing.

    Does that answer your question JD?
     
    #77 poncho, Dec 26, 2013
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  18. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    ok, I see what you mean. Thanks.
     
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I am correct in assuming the GOP disagrees with this position as well am I not CMG?
     
  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    What we disagree with is Obama/Poncho on Iran and the nature of the threat from Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda murdered 34 yesterday, December 25, in Iraq. Obama/Poncho seem not to be worried about a nuclear Middle East and Obama/Poncho seem to think that the death of Bin Laden was the end of Al Qaeda.
     
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