Watchman Nee

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by webdog, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. webdog

    webdog
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    Just been given a book of his The Normal Christian Life, and before reading it wanted some further insight into the man and his beliefs. I only really know he planted churches in China, was persecuted, and died the year I was born.

    Any feedback is much appreciated...

    I tried doing a search here, but "nee" was deemed too short to include in the search criteria, so I have nothing...
     
  2. Marcia

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    I've posted on Nee before but don't know if I have time to find all those links and resources. I do not like what I've read of Nee - he taught some very strange things. He taught some things as though they are scripture although it's actually his own ideas.

    I once read through several of his teachings/sermons and found them bizarre. He did not use scripture well to support what he was saying. He had inner and subjective leadings. Many Baptists like him for some reason and I was criticized for saying anything negative about him. Sorry, I use scripture as the measure.

    He was more a mystic than anything else.

    Check out this link:
    http://www.apologeticsindex.org/n01.html

     
  3. Marcia

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    Webdog, also check these out:

    http://www.thebereans.net/arm-wnee.shtml

    The article at the above link says that in the book you are about to read, Nee teaches that Jesus is the Holy Spirit:
    I have read before that Nee was unclear on the Trinity and seemed to hold to modalism.

    Also see
    http://www.ehow.com/about_4615161_watchman-nee-cults.html
     
  4. Alive in Christ

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    Webdog...

    I have "The Normal Christian Life" It is generally considered to be a christian classic. It was the 1st of his that I picked up, due to all the recommendations.

    Very rich. Extremely beneficial. A great blessing.

    After that one I picked up a few others and found them good as well, but not as good as "Normal". (guess thats why its considered a "must have" classic) :thumbs:

    With the others I have read I found them to be good, but there were some things that I didnt completly agree with. But nothing heretical at all.


    :godisgood:
     
  5. Marcia

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    What about the statements about Jesus being the Holy Spirit? And that Jesus is no longer in flesh? (See quotes above)
     
  6. Alive in Christ

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    Marcia,

    I read your quotes and I think he was probably saying it that way to make some kind of point. Or, there could have been a problem in translating the Chinese into English.

    Regardless, having read the book 2 or 3 times through the years I have never come away with the impression that he is a oneness pentecostal or anything like that.

    When he speaks of Jesus, he speaks of Jesus. When he speaks of the Holy Spirit, he speaks of the Holy Spirit. Same with God the Father.


    :godisgood:
     
  7. Alive in Christ

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    Marcia,


    Here is an excerpt from the book. Its from the chapter "The Holy Spirit"

    It is in relation to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I cant copy and past, since all I have is the actual book right here, so I have to literally type this out...so please dont ask for a bunch more! :praying:

    (bolding mine)

    It seems clear to me in this passage that Nee has no problem whatsoever differentiating between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.


    :godisgood:
     
    #7 Alive in Christ, Apr 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2009
  8. Marcia

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    But he makes "the Spirit" sound impersonal. And what does it mean for "the Spirit to be given to Jesus?"

    I am not the only one with concerns about Watchman Nee. His theology is known for being ambiguous and he did write unbiblical views about the Trinity and other areas, such as saying Jesus no longer has a body.

    The quotes I posted are not due to translation from Chinese; they are from Nee's thinking.

    The Local Church, founded by Witness Lee, a follower of Nee, is known for some of the same problematic teachings Nee is known for, especially teachings on the Trinity and the exclusivity of the Local Church (Local Church is the name Witness Lee gave to the "church" which he said was the only true church and there could only be one in each city).
     
  9. Alive in Christ

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    Marcia,

    Here it is from the "horses mouth" as they say.

    This is an organization devoted to answering false charges against Watchman Nees teachings. This particular article adresses Nee and Witness Lee's teachings regarding the triune nature of God. (A link will be at the end of this quote.)



    (continued next post...)
     
    #9 Alive in Christ, Apr 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2009
  10. Alive in Christ

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    Continueing...

    Hope this helps.

    Here is the link...

    http://www.contendingforthefaith.co...wer-man/appendix/conc-scriptural-meaning.html
     
  11. Marcia

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    I know what the Local Church says. They are a cult, according to many researchers. They say one thing and teach another. I have many friends in couter cult ministries and have been keeping up somewhat with the Local Church.

    Also, whatever the Local Church may say, it does not do away with the very problematic statements made by Watchman Nee.

    A group of theologians and scholars has declared the Local Church to have such problematic teachings that they are at the very least heterodox.

    Ankerberg has the Local Church in his Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions.

    See these links:

    http://www.apologeticsindex.org/379-local-church-encyclopedia-of-cults-and-new-religions

    http://www.apologeticsindex.org/docs/Gomes-Ankerberg_Letter_(analysis_of_LC_quotes)2.pdf

    This is just some of the info with evidence of the problems of the Local Church.
     
  12. Alive in Christ

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    According to researchers??

    In the material I posted they do a great job of showing that Hank Hannagraph and the Christian Research Institute are flat out WRONG regarding the Local Churches understanding of the triune nature of God.

    I prefer to come to my own conclusions regarding these things, rather than trust "researchers" all the time. The material I posted from them seems very clear that they are fine with the Trinity.

    And if there were lots and lots of problematic (heretical) teaching in the books of Watchman Nee that I have read, I would have recognized those teachings. But I cruised through them fine and was blessed.

    They certainly are more "pentecostal-ish" than most Baptist churchs are, but surely you agree that that does not automatically make a group heretical.



    :godisgood:
     
  13. Marcia

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    It is not just researchers but many prominent sound Christians such as Ankerberg as well as theologians and others who have found problems with Nee and Lee (I posted some of the statements at the beginning but you dismissed it as maybe being a translation mistake).

    The issue with the Local Church does not have anything to do with being "pentecostal-ish" but with their theology. If you would look at the facts at the links I posted, you would see that there are strong reasons to classify the Local Church as a cult.

    Don't you think Ankerberg would have a good reason to include the Local Church in his book? He would never do this without solid evidence.
     
  14. Alive in Christ

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    Marcia,

    This is from the same link I posted earlier...

    You are saying that all of those people are wrong and decieved about the supposed *heresy* of Watchman Nee?

    All of those people reccomending his teachings are decieved?


    http://www.contendingforthefaith.com/index.html


    :godisgood:
     
    #14 Alive in Christ, Apr 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2009
  15. Revmitchell

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    Watchman Nee did teach heresy as he held to Millennial Exclusion:


    http://www.watchmannee.org/major-teachings.html
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    No your not.
     
  17. Alive in Christ

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    Good grief, Rev Mitchell.

    All that is being articulated in your Nee quote is that justification is by grace through faith alone, while our rewards (or loss of them) are based on our faithfullness.

    That is normal "evangelical doctrine 101".

    At the end he makes clear that all of us will be part of the millenial kingdom AND eternity.


    :godisgood:
     
  18. Alive in Christ

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    Rev Mitchell....


    While we are on the topic, because the "general council" of this web-site deems a particular group as teaching "heresy" does not make it so. I respectfully disagree with the charge.

    I have dug into the ME folks website with all of their teachings. I differ from them in some areas, but they are CERTAINLY not heretics.

    Same with the Grace Evangelical Society, who have also, imo, been falsely accused of heresy.

    I am saddened at how quickly we Baptists will throw out the charge of "HERETIC" towards brothers and sisters who simply see some non-essentials differently than we do.


    :godisgood:
     
    #18 Alive in Christ, Apr 12, 2009
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  19. Marcia

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    You can't trust anything from this site. This site, Contending for the Faith, is a Local Church affiliated site! So of course they defend the Local Church and Watchman Nee!


    So all you are doing is quoting the Local Church defending themselves. They are very deceptive.
     
    #19 Marcia, Apr 12, 2009
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  20. Marcia

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    Here's more deception from the Local Church:

    The Local Church includes a number of organizations that not always clearly reveal their connection to the movement. These organizations include Living Stream Ministry (publishing arm), Sword Distributing, The Lord's Recovery, Church of Recovery, Bibles for America, Bibles for New Zealand, Christian Websites, Amana Christian Bookstore, Emanna (devotions).

    The Local Church publishes the Recovery Version of the Bible.

    Related web sites include, "Christian Websites," "Contending for the Faith," "Emanna"
     
    #20 Marcia, Apr 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2009

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