Featured Water and Spirit

You're slave to your presuppositions JonC.

 

Aren't we all

 

A couple of questions.

Water in John 3:5, is it the same as water in 1 John 5:6?

If yes, what water? If no, how different?

Is it proper translation to put the word, "the," ahead of spirit in John 3:5?
Does adding the word, "the," influence our understanding of the verse?

 

How does one become 'born from above'? Christ makes it plain, 'it behoveth us to be born from above'. How do we do that?

 

Young's includes it:

5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God; Jn 3 YLT

I think so. As I said earlier, I lean toward the equation being:

Profession plus the heavenly birth equals saved.

 

....scratch that one.....

 

This is the OP.

Thousand Hills made an outstanding reply in post #2
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2223804&postcount=2

Darrell agreed.

But more or less since that time the discussion has centered around kyredneck's obsession with posts like:

Forget about "being born of water and of the Spirit," or of being "born again," or even "born anew," as long as one is "born from above" then that is what is important. And the thread has basically been hijacked to make sure that we all have been regenerated or born from above.
The thread has left its basic premise:

What does it mean to be born of water and the Spirit?

To substantiate what Thousand Hills said, I offer what Peter said:

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The water is symbolic of the Word of God.
If the Word of God has not played a significant part in your new birth, then I suggest you are not born again.
Or, that is what Peter is teaching.

 

Brother DHK,

The "word of God" in 1 Peter 1:23 that makes one born again is not the written word, but rather Jesus himself who it is written of "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...13 ...Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," (John 1:1,13,14a)

Those who are made born again by Jesus the word, are regenerated by Jesus speaking to those who are spiritually dead, thus making them alive, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" (John 5:25). This verse in John cannot be referring to the last days as Jesus says the hour "now is". Also, a gospel preacher can speak the words of God, but they cannot use "the voice of the Son of God".

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

Brother DHK,

The water is not the word of God in John 3. As far as water referenced in John 3 and also found in Titus 3: "The washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost" There is a close and inseparable connection between "water" and "Spirit." The numerous washings in the Mosaic law made water familiar to the Jews as an emblem of purification. By the term "water," Christ meant the "Spirit." This is shown in Isaiah 44:3 “3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:, and Ezek 36:25-27, “25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. By "water and Spirit," Christ meant , "purifying Spirit," or "Holy Spirit." A similar expression is found in Matt. iii. 11---"He shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire."Both fire and water are purifying and powerful principles, and are used to represent the Holy Spirit.

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
--It seems fairly clear that Word of God refers to the gospel, as defined here by Peter.
You are entitled to your opinion by I take Peter's word over yours.

Why not reply to Thousand Hill's original response?

 

So the Scripture that you quote trumps the Scripture he quotes??? Your opinion is also Peter's but JonC's is Paul's and he is wrong???????

And you are a moderator????

 

First, there is no rule against any moderator engaging in debate. So don't use that as a club. It doesn't get you any brownie points and it doesn't further the debate any.

Second, he has avoided the context of the Scripture I quoted. It has nothing to do with any other Scripture.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Verse 23 plainly teaches that the word of God is necessary for regeneration (or the new birth).
Verse 25 defines that Word, not as Jesus Christ, but as the Gospel.
It is impossible for one to be regenerated without the Word of God. The Scripture is clear on that. This passage does not refer to Christ, but the gospel. No one can be saved/regenerated without the gospel (and both happen simultaneously.

 

And you failed to engage w/ the passages he used... that kind of one-sidedness is not helpful and deplorable for a moderator. That was my point. There was plenty there to talk of water and the Spirit together. And John 1 defines Jesus as the Word of God. So unless you believe Scripture contradicts itself, then you have to engage w/ the other verses proffered, Mr. Mod.

 

I am not sure what you are referring to Jon. I'll take time to answer your post if you wish, but the first time I posted in this thread was post #89. Since then Bro. Joseph posted twice, and then Greek Tim posted. I am not sure what post you are referring to when you say "If I avoided anything..."

 

I suppose he is referring to this where you say he avoided something. :wavey:

 

Hi Brother DHK,

Yes, Peter does say in a couple of verses later, "And this is the word which by the gospel preached unto you." This actually would support a belief that the "word" is Christ. If "the gospel" and "the word" are synonymous what Peter is saying wouldn't make any sense because be would in effect be saying "And this is the word which by the word is preached unto you". However, notice he distinguishes in this verse "the word" from "the gospel" by saying "this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you", thus they must be separate things. Now, if you substitute Christ in the verse in place of the word "word" the verse makes sense. Here it is, "And this is the Christ why by the gospel is preached unto you".

As far as Thousand Hill's original response, go back to the verses he used in his quote to support his belief. Nearly every verse he gave to support the written "word" as being the regenerative means by which one becomes born again can again be reconciled if the word "word" in each verse actually refers to the living word Christ.

God bless,

Brother Joe