Waterboarding was a war crime in WW2. What's changed?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JustChristian, May 4, 2009.

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  1. JustChristian

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    Waterboarding was a war crime in WW2. What's changed?
    April 21, 2009
    http://timesonline.typepad.com/time...ing-was-a-war-crime-in-ww2-whats-changed.html


    Dick Cheney wants us all to know how effective waterboarding has been in providing the CIA with "intelligence". It doesn't have a good track record.
    Water torture was commonly used in Japanese prisoner of war camps during interrogations. Eric Lomax recently described in The Times his horrific experience of it at the hands of the Kempetai, the Japanese military Police.
    In another notorious case from 1943, prisoners in Changi jail were interrogated after British and Australian commandos had sunk Japanese ships in Singapore harbour. The Japanese believed, wrongly, that civilian internees in Changi had passed information to the commandos. Of the 57 who were interrogated, one was executed and another 13 died as a result of torture, beatings and starvation.

    After the liberation of Singapore in 1945, a commission of inquiry set up by former prisoners reported on the incident, describing the "water treatment" that had been used, and the ease with which entirely innocent prisoners had been made to confess:

    There were two forms of water torture. In the first the victim was tied or held down on his back and a cloth placed over his nose and mouth. Water was then poured on the cloth. Interrogation proceeded. and the victim was beaten if he did not reply. As he opened. his mouth to breathe or answer questions, water went down his throat until he could hold no more.

    Sometimes he was then beaten over his distended stomach, sometimes a Japanese jumped on his stomach or sometimes pressed on it with his foot. In the second, the victim was tied. lengthways on a ladder, face upwards, with a rung of the ladder across his throat and his head below the ladder. In this position he was slid head first into a tub of water and kept there until almost drowned. After being revived interrogation continued and he would be re-immersed.

    As a war crimes investigator, my uncle, Cyril Wild, interrogated one of the accused officers. You can read a transcript of the interrogation in this blog by Robin Rowland, author of A River Kwai Story, the Sonkrai Tribunal.
    After the war ended, Japanese officers who had participated in the torture of prisoners, including the use of waterboarding, were condemned to death in the Far East war crimes trials. And General Yamashita, commander of Japanese forces in the Philippines, was condemned to death by the US Supreme Court for his failure to prevent his forces from committing atrocities.
    The controversial decision that a commander in chief should be held personally responsible for the acts of all the men under his command became known as the Yamashita Standard.
     
  2. padredurand

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    Including..... that is a very important word JustChristian.

    Consider the following case

    In spite of the heinous nature of his conduct, [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sawamura was sentenced to 20 years of hard labor - not death.

    [/FONT]
    Hirota was executed for atrocities on a grand scale. It is disingenuous to say he and the six others were executed for waterboarding.
     
    #2 padredurand, May 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2009
  3. OldRegular

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    JC is quite an expert at being disingenuous.
     
  4. sag38

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    JC obviously hasn't done his homework. Thanks Padre for doing it for him.
     
  5. JustChristian

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    The article says that waterboarding was considered to be a war crime and that enemy soldiers who committed war crimes were put to death. It doesn't say that that was the only crime they committed nor does it say that all of those accused were put to death. You're nitpicking. The important thing is it was considered to be a war crime. That's exactly what the title of the article says. You're the one who's deing disengenious not me,
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

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    Don't let the facts get in yer way. Best to go down swinging......
     
  7. Crabtownboy

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#Vietnam_War

    I can hit you, but it is not right for you to hit me!

    In civilian life water torture, including waterboarding is illegal. This is frm the same article linked above.

    There is absolutely no way that waterboarding can be justified using the teachings of Christ!
     
    #7 Crabtownboy, May 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2009
  8. padredurand

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    The article says... Unfortunately for the article, none of the guards were charged with waterboarding. In the case of Sawamura, he was charged with "
    water treatment which entailed forcing water down PWs throat and nostrils using among others a hose, tubes;" (citation previously provided).

    Crabtownboy cites a wiki describing, "
    Lassiter classified the water cure as "orchestrated physical abuse",[85] and described the police technique as a "modern day variation of the method of water torture that was popular during the Middle Ages". The technique employed by the police involved either holding the head in water until almost drowning, or laying on the back and forcing water into the mouth or nostrils."

    ABC, in a revealing article, describes waterboarding as
    "(t)he prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

    Granted that is harsh but nothing as described in the war crimes indictment or in the Wiki article. The major difference is that introducing water into the mouths and noses of the person can induce drowning. Waterboarding can only simulate it.



    It is not being disingenuous to consider facts in their proper context.
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

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    But abortion can ?
     
  10. Matt Black

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    Neither can.
     
  11. Crabtownboy

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    I do not believe I have ever Said that, or even thought it. I have said that there is only one verse in the Bible that even remotely speaks about abortion, and that one comes down on the side of the mother. But that is a totally different topic from this thread.

    Waterboarding is torture and I do not see any saying of Jesus that says torture is all right. I don't believe Jesus even mentioned abortion.

    No, I am not in favor of abortion.
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

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    Yes you have. You have said the baby isn't alive until the first breath. And if you can use our savior to beat us over the head about waterboarding, then I can certainly bring up abortion. It would be great if we could speak up as much, if not more, about the unborn's life that the treatment of combat enemies. Then I'll let you bring up Christ's name unchallenged.
     
  13. tinytim

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    Those poor poor terrorists!!!

    A bleeding heart liberal should be charged with accessory to terrorism.

    How soon we forget 9/11...
     
  14. Andre

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    Obviously the use of waterboarding is entirely anti-gospel. If you buy intot the legitimacy of waterboarding you are colluding with the kingdoms of this world, not the kingdom that Jesus initiated.
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    Andre, you were the guy who said David's prayers for victory were sin.

    I thought I heard how Christ was brought a sword. He came to set people apart, in fact. Since most of the caterwauling is from the atheist, evolutionist, pro-abortion, scripture denying left, I gotta say waterboarding is probably not where we should be focused.

    And I do wish the feigned outrage would be placed more thoughtfully. I am tired of being harped on about this, when abortion runs unchecked, even to the point where current restraints are removed. Don't talk to me about torture of anyone while you vote in people who will burn a fetus chemically, in the womb.
     
  16. Andre

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    Indeed, I am.

    The "sword" in that context is clearly a metaphor for how allegiance to the kingdom will divide us from non-believers. Surely you are not suggesting that Jesus came to bring violence to this world.

    My, we do like our rhetoric don't we? I suggest that such name-calling is not really constructive. What you are doing here is trying to frame the issue in terms of an "us" vs "them". Let's look at the issue on its own merits, please.

    I never said anything that any reasonable person would construe as support for, or even acceptance of abortion.

    Do you approve of waterboarding?
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    I won't debate you. If you are going to call the Psalms sinful, then I find no desire or need to worry about what you think of me.
     
  18. Crabtownboy

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    I said that because that is what the Bible says.


    Beat "us over the heat" with Jesus. Wow, what a compliment and I do appreciate it. Is it wrong to show someone that what they are saying does not conform with the teachings of Jesus?
     
    #18 Crabtownboy, May 5, 2009
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  19. BigBossman

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    Actually legally, one would have the right to retailiate. Its called self defense.

    You'd better believe one thing, if I'm attacked, cornered, or threatened, I fight back (win or lose).
     
    #19 BigBossman, May 5, 2009
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  20. Crabtownboy

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    And you just gave the best reason why waterboarding and torture by the USA is the best recruiting tool the terrorists have ... and if we stop, as Obama says we have, it takes that tool away. Thanks for helping make that point so clearly.
     
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