Were all the apostles but Paul cursed?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UZThD, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. UZThD

    UZThD
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    In another thread it is said that Paul's Gospel was not the Gospel of Peter and the other apostles. I guess this to mean that the poster supposes that Paul preached a different Gospel than they did.

    But if the Gospel which Paul taught was consistently that which he preached in all his missionary and epistolary endeavors, which included BOTH Gentile and Jewish auditors and readers , and if that Gospel were not that which the other apostles taught, then it seems that those other apostles would fall under Paul's anathema:

    "If any man preach any other Gospel unto you than ye have received, let him be accursed." Gal 1:9

    So, were all the apostles but Paul cursed?
     
  2. Glory Bound

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    I don't think Paul's gospel was a different gospel. It was the same gospel, but from a different perspective. He didn't live alongside Jesus as the other apostles did, so his perspective was from a different angle - not a different gospel.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    It will be interseting to see how those who argue that the Gospel of Paul was not the Gospel of Jesus Christ respond! :D
     
  4. yeshua4me2

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    all the same Gospel, Paul and Peter did have it out about the "Law" (ceremonial), but never about the gospel, at least it's not recorded in scripture.

    thankyou and God Bless
     
  5. blackbird

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    I'm going to "ditto" Glory Bound!

    Here's my line of thinking---reasoning about the four gospels---Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John---each of the four gospels were written about Jesus---but from different perspectives---from different "angles", if you please.

    Its sorta like four people at a football game---one is seated on the west side of the stadium--one on the east--one in the south endzone--the last in the north endzone---all four see the same ballgame---but from four different angles---when you ask them to describe the game---there will be four different descriptions---but the same ball game.

    The same gospel that Paul preached---Peter preached---two different angles---but both are describing the same gospel---for there is no other gospel but the gospel they preached---which is the gospel that Jesus preached---which is the gospel that John the Baptist preached---which is the same gospel that was preached to Abraham---and he rejoiced to see Jesus' day!! Amen???

    Bro. David
     
  6. UZThD

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    ===


    OR

    I'm glad you got my point. Unless my logic is unsound, which happens,

    premise: Paul and Peter (etc) preached different Gospels

    premise: Paul cursed those who preached a Gospel different than his,

    conclusion: Therefore, Paul cursed the other apostles.


    Of course IMO the first premise is fallacious. But if it is not, then, I don't see how the conclusion is invalid.

    Bill G.
     
  7. Dave G.

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    Inescapable logic on Bill's part. Brace yourself for ad hominem.

    OR: "It will be interseting to see how those who argue that the Gospel of Paul was not the Gospel of Jesus Christ respond!"
     
  8. ituttut

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    Of course not, only those that come preaching to the Christian that we must believe and be circumcised, and follow and be under the Law of Moses, as shown in Acts 15.

    Paul’s gospel is by grace are we saved Through faith, and not of works, for it is a gift from God. That is how we are saved if we believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation. Any other gospel is anathema. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12
     
  9. OldRegular

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    From reading all of ituttut's posts one would think that there were only 3 Apostles, Peter, John, and Paul. I would remind him that there were 9 additional Apostles and that some of these traveled as far as India preaching to Gentiles.

    It is certain that Paul did not establish the Church at Rome. Who did? Did it not include Gentiles? Paul's letter to the Church at Rome would certainly indicate that it did. It wasn't Peter or John who established the Church at Rome since they were in Jerusalem.

    There is also one significant passage of Scripture in Paul's letter to the Church at Rome that dispensationalists have apparently never read since they continuously insist that God revealed some deep mystery to Paul that none of His people had heard before,

    Romans 1:1-7; 13; 16, 17
    1. Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    2. (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
    3. Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    4. And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
    5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    6. Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
    7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.


    13. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

    16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


    From verse 2 we see that the Gospel of God, or the Gospel of Jesus Christ if you prefer, [this mystery that had supposedly been revealed only to Paul?] had been promised by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures [the Old Testament]. Yet dispensationalists insist that the Old Testament knows nothing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the Church even though Paul himself states that the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

    Also note that in verse 13 we see that there were indeed Gentiles in the Church at Rome and these Gentiles had not heard the preaching of the Gospel supposedly revealed only to Paul.

    Finally in verse 16 the apostle Paul defines the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

    Strangely in verse 17 the Apostle returns to the Old Testament to help define this Gospel stating The just shall live by faith. Habakkuk 2:4

    Dispensationalists such as ituttut tell us that the true Gospel was supposedly revealed only to Paul, meaning:

    1. That all the other Apostles were preaching a false Gospel until Paul came along.
    2. That Jesus Christ taught a false Gospel to his Apostles and followers.
    3. Since Paul apparently talked to Peter and John only know how the remaining nine received the correct Gospel must remain a mystery.

    The doctrine of these dispensationalists is seriously flawed and the implications of what these dispensationalists teach is very dangerous.
     
  10. ituttut

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    Where are the contradictions in the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven. Once we can divide the earthly gospel from the heavenly gospel and bring them together, there remain no more contradictions.

    Why do you hate Paul so much? Paul says Christ gave him a “dispensational” gospel. The danger I believe you will find is for those that do not believe Christ from heaven. Christ faith, ituttut
     
  11. OldRegular

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    ituttut

    The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 1, 2 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

    The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

    Now in Romans 1:1, 2 Paul states that he is separated unto the Gospel of God which means he was set apart for the Gospel of God.

    In Romans 1:9 Paul states that I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son.

    Please answer the following two questions simply and directly without endless spin.

    1. Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?

    2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?
     
  12. elijah_lives

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    "It is certain that Paul did not establish the Church at Rome. Who did? Did it not include Gentiles? Paul's letter to the Church at Rome would certainly indicate that it did. It wasn't Peter or John who established the Church at Rome since they were in Jerusalem."

    RE: Acts 2:5-12 (esp. verse 10) -- visitors to Jerusalem at the time of Pentecost carried the gospel back to their homes, including Rome. The church in Rome was well established by the time ANY of the apostles visited that city.

    Tim
     
  13. ituttut

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    Christ gave Paul One Gospel to preach to the Gentile, and to the Jew if we believe Acts 9. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  14. OldRegular

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    ituttut

    I will give you the same answer I presented on a similar thread as follows:

    There is no such thing as the gospel of Paul. There is only the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you only know the gospel of Paul, whatever that is, then spend some time on your knees.

    Because Mary gave birth to the man Jesus Christ Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox give her the false title of Mother of God, which is clearly heretical. Calling the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Gospel of Paul or differentiating between that Gospel Jesus Christ taught while on earth from the Gospel revealed to Paul is just as repugnant as calling Mary the Mother of God.

    Put in plain words the doctrine of hyper dispensationalism is as near to heresy and blasphemy as one could get. Your veneration of Paul borders on the Roman Catholic doctrine of the veneration of Mary.
     
  15. ituttut

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    The Apostles, with the exception of Paul only preached to the circumcised, so this was out-of-bounds for them, or their converts. God sent Peter to one Gentile as found in Acts 10, and that was it. The Gentile nations to the West became Christian nations, not those of the Pentecostal church.Christian faith, ituttut
     
  16. ituttut

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    QUOTE]Originally posted by OldRegular:
    ituttut

    I will give you the same answer I presented on a similar thread as follows:

    There is no such thing as the gospel of Paul. There is only the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you only know the gospel of Paul, whatever that is, then spend some time on your knees.

    Because Mary gave birth to the man Jesus Christ Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox give her the false title of Mother of God, which is clearly heretical. Calling the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Gospel of Paul or differentiating between that Gospel Jesus Christ taught while on earth from the Gospel revealed to Paul is just as repugnant as calling Mary the Mother of God.

    Put in plain words the doctrine of hyper dispensationalism is as near to heresy and blasphemy as one could get. Your veneration of Paul borders on the Roman Catholic doctrine of the veneration of Mary.
    [/QUOTE]

    Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant, this the heavenly Apostle commissioned by Christ Jesus from heaven to give His (Jesus Christ’s) gospel. Please in the future point your finger toward the sky and say I do not believe your gospel from on high.

    The Catholic church believes the gospel of Peter, and not Mary. Mary does not claim a gospel. You are confused. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  17. OldRegular

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    Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant, this the heavenly Apostle commissioned by Christ Jesus from heaven to give His (Jesus Christ’s) gospel. Please in the future point your finger toward the sky and say I do not believe your gospel from on high.

    The Catholic church believes the gospel of Peter, and not Mary. Mary does not claim a gospel. You are confused. Christian faith, ituttut
    [/QUOTE]

    ituttut

    You say that:
    Either retract the statement or admit that you are guilty of lying.

    As far as the Catholic Church believing the gospel of Peter there is no such gospel anymore than there is a gospel of Paul. There is only One Gospel, there has always been only One Gospel, there will always be only One Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Power of God unto Salvation. To claim otherwise is blasphemous and heretical.
     
  18. ituttut

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    Notice it is you that calls Paul repugnant, this the heavenly Apostle commissioned by Christ Jesus from heaven to give His (Jesus Christ’s) gospel. Please in the future point your finger toward the sky and say I do not believe your gospel from on high.

    The Catholic church believes the gospel of Peter, and not Mary. Mary does not claim a gospel. You are confused. Christian faith, ituttut
    </font>[/QUOTE]ituttut

    You say that:
    Either retract the statement or admit that you are guilty of lying.

    As far as the Catholic Church believing the gospel of Peter there is no such gospel anymore than there is a gospel of Paul. There is only One Gospel, there has always been only One Gospel, there will always be only One Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Power of God unto Salvation. To claim otherwise is blasphemous and heretical.
    [/QUOTE]

    Does Jesus call it His Law or Moses' Law?
     
  19. elijah_lives

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    "The Apostles, with the exception of Paul only preached to the circumcised, so this was out-of-bounds for them, or their converts. God sent Peter to one Gentile as found in Acts 10, and that was it. The Gentile nations to the West became Christian nations, not those of the Pentecostal church.Christian faith, ituttut "

    Who is talking about Gentiles? These verses in Acts chap. 2 are referring to Jews of the Dispersion, who where required by their faith to attend the Feast of the First-fruits, in Jerusalem. Peter converted them at that time (verse 41), which I believe is behind the tradition of Peter's founding the church in Rome. He did, indirectly, through his wonderful sermon depicted in this chapter. It could not be clearer in the text...
     
  20. elijah_lives

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    Sorry, I meant to point out in my previous post that in Acts 2:10, "...and strangers of Rome, Jews and PROSELYTES..." These formed the basis of the church in Rome.

    The nature of Pauls Epistle to the Romans, especially the greetings at the end, imply that a lot of communication had been going on before his epistle, in the form of visitors and letters. We will probably never know the exact particulars of the early years of that church, but it is obvious that Pentecost was the germ.

    Tim
     

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