What about Adam ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?


    If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:34

    34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    2 Tim 4:18

    And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 Cor 15:46-50

    46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..

    Hebrews 2 :14

    14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    And scripture says this 1 Cor 15:50

    50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

    As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,970
    Likes Received:
    128
    In the garden Adam would have had access to the tree of life.

    “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil.
    Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—

    He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden …
    Genesis 3:22

    Rob
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Everlasting Life was Promised in Christ before the world began ? Titus 1:2

    2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    I do not believe adam had access to everlasting Life in the Garden, if he did, flesh and blood could have entered in, which contradicts 1 Cor 15:50-53

    50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    Now was not Adam made or created corruptible ? Yes he was..
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,970
    Likes Received:
    128
    Whether man had the potential to be corrupted is NOT the question.

    Man was created to be in fellowship with the LORD; Adam walked with him and talked with him.

    Paul was speaking to the sons of Adam who were products of the corrupted flesh of their father, Adam.

    I believe you must distinguish between various aspects of what ‘eternal life” means.
    Perhaps there is a difference between what Moses wrote about in Genesis 3 and what Paul communicated to the Corinthians.

    Rob
     
  5. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Adam would not need to "inherit eternal life". When Adam was created there was no death. Death came into the world as a punishment for sin (Rom 5:12). Until sin was in the world, there was no death.

    Adam was created with eternal life and lost it due to his sin.

    Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

    Deacon is absolutely correct about 1 Cor 15. In the original creation, there was no corruption, for everything was very good. Once it became corrupted, it could no longer be part of the kingdom of God.
     
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    deacon

    Yes it is. God promised Eternal Life, incorruptible Life before the world began, before adam began Titus 1:1-2

    1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

    2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    Now this Life was in His Son, Jesus Christ 1 Jn 5:11

    11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

    This Eternal Life was with the Father in the beginning 1 Jn 1:1-2

    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

    2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )

    This life is incorruptible ! Now the Life that man received in Adam was corruptible life ! The word corruptible as in 1 Pet 1:23 is the greek word
    phthartos:

    corruptible, perishing

    incorruptible is the greek word
    aphthartos:


    uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable

    a) of things

    2) immortal

    a) of the risen dead

    Imperishable:

    not subject to decay; indestructible; enduring. It cannot die !

    Now, it is obvious what kind of life God gave adam when He created him. It is also more obvious when He told adam that in the day you eat you shall surely die or perish See Gen 2:17

    That statement is a dead give away that the life adam was given was not eternal life, else death would not have been a option, eternal life cannot die !
     
  7. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    Before the fall, Adam had eternal life in the garden. You are trying to say something with scripture that does not fit. Death came by sin. Adam had no sin. Adam had perfect relationship with the Father. God did not design Adam to die, ever. Adam ate from the tree of life. Sometimes we ask we the strangest questions, makes a person wonder do you believe anything at all?
     
  8. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why? What purpose does it serve?
     
  9. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well, it is sin that brings forth death. If Adam had not sinned in the Garden, he would be alive to this day.
     
  10. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,970
    Likes Received:
    128
    Interesting thoughts SBM.

    I guess it does matter.

    Dispensationally speaking, Adam was created in a state of innocence.
    We currently live in a state of grace and in the future will be glorified, and be like him (1 Jn 3:1-3).

    This glorified state will be unlike Adam's originally created state.

    I think I remember Hugh Ross (of Reason to Believe Ministries) speculating that without sinning, Adam might have lived a natural lifespan and God intervening in a special way to change the body of Adam into a different one. …but it's all guess work.

    Some people say that the earth was created perfect, I disagree.

    The worlds were created as God intended them to be. The phrase "very good" merely confirms that they were created exactly as he intended. But God planned better things for us, a far greater work requiring his sacrifice for his creation.

    We will live differently that Adam did in his innocence, we will live like God and be like him in perfect fellowship.

    Rob
     
  11. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?

    If Adam and Eve never sinned, we would still be doing God's will, filling the earth with His glory, never dying.
     
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, and scripture reveals that would have been impossible since God gave adam a corruptible life which is far inferior to the Life He promised in Christ Jesus.. Eternal Life has always been in God's Son Christ not adam 1 Jn 5 :11


    11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

    1 Jn 2:25

    25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    This promise was made before the world began, before adam was made out of dust Titus 1:1-2

    1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

    2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    This hope of Eternal Life was not centered in adam, sorry..
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    plain

    Thats false, eternal life cannot die !
     
  14. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    How was Adam to die if he did not sin?
     
  15. Gup20

    Gup20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Death is a punishment for sin. Without sin, there would be no death. Without death, there would be perpetual life.

    The reason we have "eternal life" (your distinction, not mine) where we can never be affected by death again is because we DO die... our bodies will die, though we have life in Christ. We will get new bodies in heaven.

    As Paul describes in Romans 7, just as a woman who's husband dies is free from the law that bound her to her husband, we too are free from the law because of the death that our bodies die. Once we've died, death no longer has any claim on us.
     
  16. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    Err. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Was this before the man was created? Death came upon all men because of the sin of Adam.

    that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    What is the power of death? When did he get it? What do you think might have been the very first thing to die? Abel?

    Adam was made a being that could die?
     
  17. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    If he had not eaten he would have had to be changed as those alive at the coming of the Lord to have inherited the kingdom of God.

    In the day thou eat dying thou shall surely die. Not if you eat. He was going to eat for the Lamb had already been considered slain.

    Before times of ages God made the promise of the hope of eternal life.

    Do you think this promise was made to sinful, degenerate, corruptible, man
    OR
    To the Lamb without spot or blemish slain before Adam was created, the sinless seed of Abraham, the seed of David, the man child brought forth as the firstborn son of the virgin Mary conceived in her by the Father Spirit the
    God?

    Who do you think that promise was made for?
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Titus 1:1-2


    1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

    2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


    Eternal Life was promised before the world began. Many mistake and believe that Adam and man in Him, had eternal life and that the continuance of it depended upon a condition, that condition being, if Adam [ Man] did not disobey God and eat of the Tree He was told not to eat from.

    So from that reasoning, life eternal was not promised on a premise made by God before the world began, but after time began, and conditioned on the obedience of man who was made of the dust of the ground. Can anyone see the discrepancy with this faulty thinking, and what Paul writes in Titus 1 ?

    2 Tim 1:1

    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of [eternal ] life which is in Christ Jesus,

    1 Jn 2:25; 1 Jn 5:11

    And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    5:11

    And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son

    Now who could it have been that God promised Eternal life to before the world began ? Was it Adam ? Was it the Last Adam ?
    __________________
    Rom 2:28-29
     
  19. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    You have confused something very simple, best wishes.
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have given you the Truth and you cannt accept it. Point out what is false in post 18 ! Prove to us it is wrong !
     

Share This Page

Loading...