Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by BPM, Apr 28, 2002.
Do you believe that Women should be Pastors?
Women should not usurp authority over a man...lead,teach,preach in a church setting. That would be the job of the Elders....which is to be men.
Not if you read the bible.
I just had this conversation with some students of mine recently. Some of the boys were talking with the girls (8th graders) who were surprised to find out that one of the first qualifications of a bishop in a church is that he is the husband of one wife (as opposed to more than one).
So, I told the young ladies, that if they could meet that requirement, then more power to you, you desire a good thing! (obviously, sarcastic).
It's pretty straight forward and Biblical that women are not to be pastors. This does NOT mean that women do not have valuable positions. Different roles doesn't indicate non-equality in God's eyes! Each role is important and God ordained so as to bring glory to Him! That should be our preoccupation!
Now, as for those of you who would use the Bible to exclude women from following a God-given calling, you'd better not ever let an unmarried man be your pastor, or you'll be violating your own standard of interpretation.
I am not posting this to squelch the conversation, but I did want to give everyone some links to the insights of the members of this board in previous threads on this topic:
Again, this is not to stop the thread, but it may give everyone a little oomph to their arguments.
Wow. A finger pointer.
1st...Why wouldn't we use the bible ?
2nd...it's not my standard, it's the Allmighty's.
3rd...it's not open to interpretation.
God would not "call" a woman pastor,that is contradictory to scripture. God never contradicts with His Word.
I would question the call.
Good post Mr. Curtis
The Bible is our only standard.
[ April 29, 2002, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: katie ]
I wonder when Brother Joshua's gonna show up. This topic most definitely would pique his interest.
It matters little what any of us "believe". What matters is, what does the Scripture teach?
Scripture is clear that men and men alone are called to be elders in the church.
I Tim 3:1 (NASB) It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Women Pastors - I would say no; but to say that God has purposefully excluded one half of the species from evangelism is a foolish thing to do. Also the term pastor for those who expound and explain the will of God from Scripture at the pulpit every Sunday may in fact cause a misunderstanding of Spiritual gifts
I point to Scripture to note that there were a multitude of female prophets. I point to the judge Deborah, and Barak
Its simply a matter of that Christ has designed headship to be that of the man's at the very least in name only; IF not in entirety. I would not have a woman serve the role of Pastor unless two conditions are met 1) she's married and fulfills the elder's qualifications 2) She is NOT the head pastor nor is she assigned to an area of which she will be the head of.
Im jumping around all over - but what about the fact that there are so many single female missionaries out there teaching the Word of God. Is that proper? Im making reference to the spiritual gifts and to the role of the "pastor" within both contexts
Jimmy, I've joined in this discussion a few times, and don't see the need to do so again. It's not an issue I'd even bothered to think about for quite some time before joining the Baptist Board. In the baptist circles I travel in, the issues are things like: "How can we find more women for our pulpit?" and "How do we get the word out that the mainstream baptist seminaries encourage women in ministry?"
If anyone is undecided on this issue, I'd be happy to point them to some reading material on my side of the fence.
Just becsasue women are not called to be pastors, does not mean they have been excluded from evangelisim. Do you think it is only pastors who are to tell unblievers about Jesus? No. Thats our job. A pastors job is to teach us. Gpd has given women a place to serve Him just as He has men. But He has said pastors/preachers are to be men.
Katie - Im going to be evil right now
What spiritual gift makes a pastor? so I can tell my 3 women pastors that they cannot have that gift and so must resign. (at least I want to tell 2 of them that)
Which is the gift of the missionary - And how does it differ from the pastor?
Actually I went looking through different versions and they each had the word pastor there. In fact as I skimmed through the whole Bible for the word pastor there are only 2 whole instances of it. One in the OT, and one in the NT as far as I can tell. And both refer to sheperds. Im not guaranteed sure that there is a specific pastoring gift. Since the gifts are displayed at least twice.
Jesus told His followers that we are all to share the gospel. Do you think only pastors share the gospel. Maybe thats an excuse not to do it.
If you'll read the qualifcations, you'll find it say the pastor/preacher/elder/overseer(whatever one might call the office, it is still the same office) is male.
Maybe thos women need to read the bible, and stop putting their personal wants, and secular feminism over and above the bible. Becasue thats all it is.
Read the scripture, they tell us. And God will never violate Him written word. By being pastors they are saying He does, and is.
I understand your confusion on the definitions we use, I too have wondered how Bishop became Pastor etc.
The problem isn't really what title a woman has, or what gift she has. Whatever the gift, she can not be in a position of authority of over men, and she can not be in a postition where she teaches them. If she claims that is her gift, then she is choosing to ignore the words of Paul. I don't think God would grant a woman a gift that would make them disobey His Word.
Pastor is not a gift; it is an office. And Bishop never became Pastor. The terms Pastor, Bishop, and Elder are all used interchangeably to refer to teh same office (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:1-2).
One of the misunderstandings is the belief that Sularis has mentioned, namely that women are called to be pastors. They are not. That does not disqualify them from ministry, from service, from evangelism, from disciple-making, etc. It simply means that they are not called to pastor. They may even hold positions on a church staff. But that is a different issue. We need to reclaim the pastorate for what it is rather than for what modern society has turned it into.
The Apostle Paul has been called a woman hater for some of the things he wrote.
There are a lot of issues that have been changed because it was decided that these things were taught because of the customs of that day.
According to history the church was split where women did not sit with men as they do today.
Women would holler out in the midst of the service and ask their husbands what was being said or done. It was also the custom of that day that women and men be separated.
I imagine the leaders of the church knew they had changed so much already away from Judaism that they did not feel it was necessary to change this.
Then in that society men would not have accepted women as leaders. Today that has changed. So why do we hold to this issue but not others?
If this was really a mandate from the Holy Spirit would not that have conflicted with the women God used in the Old Testament such as Deborah. She was a prophetess. She led Israel. She was a judge. She was over Barak a General of the Israeli army. Barak did not seem to have a problem with a woman being over him.
There are a lot of cities in this country where men will not start a church. What is supposed to happen. No church because of this reasoning.
The city's people cannot have a church because a man won't go. With the rate pastors are leaving churches and men are leaving the ministry what is going to happen sooner or later.
Do we not realize that the problems of immorality in the ministry is very rare if a woman is in charge.
Statistics show that in 85% of the homes of Baptists the man is not the spiritual leader but the woman is. Why? Is she trying to be a womens libber? No. The man refuses to take the leadership role so for the sake of the children the woman assumes the role. This is another subject that is rarely preached about. So if a woman can take the leadership at home because the man refuses to why cannot a woman start a church if men refuse to do so?
Let's also remember that Paul said that a woman should not teach a man yet we have women Sunday school teachers teaching men. Why? Our excuse is that customs have changed in society. We have women giving lectures which is a form of teaching but all that is ok we claim.
Either we put all women out of teaching jobs
or we accept women as pastors in areas that men refuse to go.