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Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Phillipians121, Sep 26, 2006.
Quote from someone?
My pastor invites correction on something if he is wrong, or conversation if we aren't sure about it. His opinion, any man serious about God and preaching should be teachable, even if it's from his congregation.
Gossip of any type about anyone is wrong, repeating something about someone we've heard or read is wrong.
It is called double-posting when we post the very same thing on more than one thread and is against BB rules.
Furthermore, you must give credit to the author for any quotes or pieces you post or it violates the copyright law.
OOPS! Just looked up after post and saw this is Pastoral Ministries forum. Sorry 'bout that
Mcroon wrote the quote. I am very interested to get feed back on it since it totally contradicts what I was told to do on another thread as we all know.
Some are saying you must confront if a pastor has crossed boundries or has sinned and now this guy is saying you must never confront and can back it up by scripture. I am now confused. So without attacking or showing oneupmanship please can I get some helpful scriptual feedback!
We have plans to meet with the head elder tomorrow so this is urgent! I personally do not want to.
You are mentioning two different situations here. I believe most were thinking correcting his doctorinal positions from they way your thread was presented and I believe that is what Mcroon is referring to also. In that light there is a right and wrong way to do everything. You shouldn't jump up in the middle of his sermon and tell him he's wrong and you won't hear anymore.
You are talking about behavior or "Church Disciplin" in which case you are doing what is right by going to the Elders.
Please be sure to go with an open mind. Don't go saying what you were told on this board, just state the facts, pray and let God lead the meeting. Go not only to see man's judgement, but seek divine justice. The Man of God is accountable to God and God is very capable of disciplining his when they are wrong in his sight.
I do not think that's Biblical at all - and a very scary thought, considering the abuses from the pulpit that have been allowed to continue. We ARE to obey our elders but we are also to correct each other - Biblically and in love. I know that our pastor has been corrected before - and he'll stand in the pulpit and correct himself and apologize and thank the person who came to him. If you do correct your pastor and he doesn't listen or doesn't agree, then I think Matthew 18 can come into play - going to the deacon board or whatever government you have in your church. There are correct paths for correction and wrong ones too - gossipping to everyone about something is wrong but to go to the 'authorities' is NOT wrong. Pastors need to be held accountable and if they are 'above' correction, there is the possibility of him continuing in error and leading others astray. Now, if you go through all of the 'channels' and still nothing is done, then I think it's best to leave the church.
Show me one verse in Scripture where it says that pastors are above correction (and not that we are to obey them - that's different).
Never "confront" a pastor/elder of "wrong" (your opinion) without 2-3 witnesses to verify all the facts. THAT is biblical. The pastor/elder is to be esteemed, so the light "he said/she said" should not be considered.
BUT, that said, if there is error in doctrine or practice, what kind of member would you be to "ignore" it, or "brush it under the carpet". Such irresponsible conduct has led to gross sins (ala Bob Gray in Jacksonville's pedophilia or Hyle's moral debacle).
You MUST speak up. NOT gossip but in the correct setting/people who can do something to ameliorate the situation.
if you are referring to the board member "MRCoon"? his postings clearly show that what he was talking about was an attitude of WHO and HOW a pastor is confronted.
and I quote:
either way this is a sin but the issue is who rebukes the pastor if the pastor is wrong in this situation?
The example of an adulterous pastor we can assume that both agree that the church body needs to resolve this and as is the case in nearly all situations such as this the pastor is usually quitting/resigning in shame instead of the church having to conduct church discipline and/or firing him because he won't leave.
But the issue I have been focusing on is more of a "we don't like how our pastor is doing things" or "he wronged me and I'll correct him"...this is a dangerous approach to have. And to use scripture out of context to condone or encourage this is wrong. We need to pray for our pastor because while we expect him to live the better more victorous christian life (as he should by the way) we also need to temper our expectations with the reality that the devil is after our pastor a whole lot more than he is someone just sitting in the pew. Because while a Sunday School Teacher or deacon has a certain sphere of influence and will affect some adversely if they fall...a pastor who falls affects not just one church but other local churches, any affliated churches, and even the view of the unsaved against God and christianity.
(end of quote)
See, if you read ALL of the context of his post you might find that there's nothing to be confused about.
It also might behoove you to ask the poster himself to clarify for you.....instead of taking his quote to another thread.......
Im sure he'd appreciate that.
Thanks everyone that was very helpful. And yes we will go with an open mind and not mention this board at all.
It is our desire that this be done for restoration and fellowship. We do not wish this to happen to anyone else and are very concerned about him talking bad about his wife either from the pulpit or to other people in a way that demeans her character. (We have heard people mention his remarks in sermons before and yet no one said anything to him or the leaders, that we know of anyway) We do pray that God will work things out for good in all this, please pray for us thank you.
In actuallity, this is a continuation of the closed thread.
I didn't recall the post but I had a feeling there was more to it than what was quoted. I do know of cases where a pastor became a ran away train looking for a place to crash which is a really tough situation in the Church. In one case the pastor died suddenly in a car accident and the other lost most of his membership and went away. Most of the members slowly came back under the new Pastor. Those who didn't come back were the initial problem im my opinion...
Always keep in mind, Pastors are friends of other pastors so they do have people who will speak logic in unreasonable times. There is also the convention if the Church is associated with one.
Okay I think we have had enough.
First and foremost this is supposed be a place for pastors to discuss the joys and struggles of the ministry, not a place to raise issues about pastors who are not here to defend themselves.
Secondly, even if this were the right place 11 pages on one thread is enough and we don't need another.
If the author of the OP persists in this kind of action further steps may need to be taken.