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Featured What are your thoughts on music?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by FrigidDev, Mar 16, 2016.

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  1. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    All you did was say "it sounds like satan", you didn't actually say anything useful, just your own personal opinion, and you end with "I promise I'm right", and basically said if anyone argues against what you believe, then they lack an ability to understand God.

    Which is appalling to say the very least.
     
  2. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    Which furthers my point. "Once you're used to the .. genre", which means that you had to sit through how many songs that only elicited anger and hate before you could finally find out that these guys are singing about God?

    Two things to this: Firstly, you have no idea what our connections to the music industry is, so this is a pretty bold statement. Suffice to say that there is no ignorance of the music industry. Beyond actually being a professional performer at one time, I currently teach music theory.

    Second, if there were, you don't have to know anything about an industry to distinguish between the spirit of God, and the spirit of flesh, and the spirit of Satan.

    They can disagree all they want. I even tried to listen to it again. I made it about one minute into the song before I gave up. I could not discern a single word. Not even the commonly used ones, like "an", "the", etc. It sounded like growling.

    No, it's not funny. And that's my point. And I know what the desire to kill feels like. And I pray that you never have to feel it.

    You know, I've never participated in a Satanic ritual before. Maybe I've misjudged them? I mean, I've never experienced a call to Satan, so maybe what I think is going on isn't really what's going on. Obviously I'm using hyperbole. But the point stands. Non-experience does not mean that you can't discern the spirit.

    No one's arguing about pop music. It's not on trial. I agree with you there. Satan has used it in a huge way. And it started just like what you're trying to do here. Pop used to be recognized for what it is. But Christians let it slip little by little, and now all I have to do is type the words, "I kissed a girl", and most people can finish the line, tell me who sang it, and even hum a few bars. So, yes, it is evil. But that doesn't lessen the evil of other genres.

    As has already been pointed out, popularity is not a criteria for standards. If that were the case (if you'll pardon the ad absurdum) then we'd all be emo kids or at the very least be indy.

    Again, this has already been dealt with, but it's a false dichotomy fallacy. It isn't either/or. There is also the possibility of neither.

    I'll end with this note. You've made a huge assumption here, one that I've already debunked. "People like me" don't listen to pop. And your insinuation that I've been tricked because I think that the style of music you're defending is evil? Well, I'm going to use your own words that you posted to another poster.

     
  3. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    I don't need to go down this road, people always present the same arguments, simply put what it will boil down to is you trying to argue that musical style is amoral, which is absolutely false, the musical style communicates and evokes feelings regardless of the words. Heavy Metal Music does not evoke feelings or communicate holiness or the fruit of the Spirit, It's the same with rock music, etc.

    The point is that you like this kind of music because it appeals to your flesh and makes you feel good with the dopamine rush that the music provides you..at its core nature that musical style promotes what is contrary to God, just because some people insert lyrics about Jesus, does not mean it is now sanctified.

    There is a reason why a certain style of music is played at clubs, and hippie music festivals. Can you imagine anything close to the style of the classic hymn amazing grace getting a good reception with a bunch of drunk people? of course not. There is a reason for this.

    People can come up with all kinds of reasons and excuses to justify worldly and carnal entertainment.
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You do know, I take it, that when we are “touched” by one of those old hymns (A Mighty Fortress, for example)….or when we get chill bumps singing “Holy Holy Holy”, that physically this is also a neurological reaction. Lyrics can have the same reaction apart from the music (If you don't believe me, read “This is Just to Say” by William Carlos Williams).

    While I agree with your conclusions about the music itself, but I disagree with your reasoning.

    In the 18th century many rejected the use of hymns in worship for, essentially, appealing to the flesh. These hymns were not metrical psalms. They were hymns of “human composure”. It is interesting to think that all of those hymns you would sing were opposed by many on the ground you now stand. And what was objectionable was the words, not the music. Isaac Watts did not put his words to “death metal”….well....at least not in public O O.

    Hippie music festivals? Hippies? Much of their destructive ideologies have been incorporated into the Democratic Party, their music style into indy/folk and country music…..what defined them was a sense of counterculture which no longer can be applied. Hippies are not the problem. You gotta watch out for the flappers and their short skirts :confused:. Oh, and the beatniks….now that’s another story....beatniks.... Cautious....

    If you mean would people like Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead), Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, and Willie Nelson (had to add Willie…not quite hippie but not quite not hippie either), then yes….I definitely could imagine all of them, and others, performing Amazing Grace (and I can do this without even using any imagination).

    I agree. And this is a problem that has penetrated our churches.
     
  5. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    my point is that people mistake a dopamine rush for the Holy spirit. My point was not that all dopamine rushes are evil.

    And i meant could you really imagine amazing grace in it's original form and style be appealing to those on drugs or alcohol. i almost guarantee you they will want something more appealing to their carnal flesh.

    my point is simply that music communicates on it's own without emotion. I contend that there are certain musical styles that communicate a sinful appetite and attitude. I believe that just like certain lyrics to songs are inspired by Satan, so are certain types and forms of music.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So you are defending a music style called "death-metal"?

    And you do not see a problem with that?
     
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I know, brother. Part of my reply was meant lightheartedly.

    Yes, I have heard some of those I mentioned perform Amazing Grace in it's original form and style (although Joe Walsh used a guitar on his version). No, I disagree that music communicates on its own without emotion (but I also believe that for lyrics to be effective they carry emotion themselves as well). Focusing solely on the cognitive is just as bad as focusing solely on the emotion.

    I agree that music itself can be satanic.
     
  8. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    You're making the same arguments over and over again.

    Let me try and respond without bringing the subjective part into the debate.


    1. Music can convey a message without having lyrics. (I believe true)

    a. However, the medium is not 100% of the message. (you say it is 100%)

    Let me illustrate. You have a classical song by Chopin(a personal favorite), which is relaxing, and an instrumental song by a death metal band, which is energizing.

    From your logic, the death metal song would actually be worse than the Chopin song, and it would be fine to listen to Chopin.

    Ok, great, let's take that in a different context. I have a classical song with lyrics like this "Oh hail Satan, etc, etc". Is that song perfectly fine to listen to? according to your logic, that "the medium is the message", it would be fine to listen to that song, since classical has a relaxing effect, unlike death metal, which is more aggressive music.

    Obviously, you would have a problem with that song, and thus by counterexample, the medium is NOT the message.

    If this was mathematics, I would have just made a slam dunk proof, just so you know.

    2. Music is subjective.

    a. Several of you have said that you cannot understand the lyrics...while that may be true, I can understand them, and many other fellow listeners can understand them as well, so any point you have about that is subjective and therefore invalid to apply generally.

    b. People have been making the point that how you feel while listening to the song, can actually be holy, or evil. I strongly disagree. If I listen to a song that brings forth anger, and is energizing, then it is 100% up to me, how I channel that anger. If I am channeling it towards something not evil(i.e., hating satan, remembering to witness because people are going to hell, etc., etc.), then how is that in any way, bad? It's not.

    Think of this...you're listening to what you think is a benign, christian song. They lyrics are great, stuff like "Oh I will serve you Lord, I love you with all my heart", and so on. At the end of the song, the singer closes with the line "And so lord of light, I end my worship", or something similar. To you, that means Jesus, but to someone else, that could mean Lucifer. Where are you now? You have a song that to you, is holy, with holy lyrics, but could in fact be a ballad to satan. For all you know, the singer who made the song, could secretly be a satanist, putting subtle references in his songs.

    It's all about where you draw the line guys. With your logic, you could extend it like that, and come up with some outrageous conclusions. "Oh, I can't go play paintball, because it energizes me and makes me want to do violent things...". See what I mean?


    So, if you don't like the music...don't listen to it. Just like I hate country music, and don't listen to it, so you shouldn't listen to death metal, if you don't like it.

    It's a preference. What appeals to you, might not appeal to me, and vice versa.


    The music itself is not inherently evil. Alright, the music itself might be inherently aggressive, but that is no indication that the song itself is "satanic". It's up to you, the listener, how you interpret that energy.

    P.S., I don't get angry when I listen to this music, I don't know why you guys say you get mad and violent...I don't. Maybe if I was working out, it would make me work out harder. But just sitting here at the computer...I could switch from Chopin to death metal in a heartbeat and not have a change of mind. (And I actually do do that).
     
  9. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    No, just like I don't think that Rock music has anything to do with Rocks.

    Death metal is a genre named after a band called "death", that introduced the iconic sound. So no, I don't see a style of music as clashing with Christianity, just based off of its name, or its sound.
     
  10. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    FrigidDev, I took a look at your profile and noticed that you say that you are sixteen years old. I mean this as no insult, but I wonder if you will change your thinking a bit when you mature in years. I know that I did.
     
  11. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    That's probably true.

    Doesn't discount my argument though. ;)
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    To whom are you responding?
     
  13. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Does listening to "Christian" Death Metal make you angry or not? Is anger ever justified?

    Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

    Pr 22:24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:
     
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  14. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    yes anger is definitely justified.

    we already went over this earlier. Those verses are talking about fleshly anger. Like getting mad in traffic. Righteous anger/hate is justified.

    Psalm 7:11

    God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I will ask again. You are defending "death-metal" and you do not see a problem with that?
     
  16. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    No!

    It's just the name of the genre. If you can't see past the name of the genre...I mean come on.

    There's another genre I like, it's called Metalcore...have a problem with that? Well you shouldn't, because it's just a name
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Maybe you should have just called it "Christian Metal", Frigid, and left the "death", or "black", off the label. O O :D

    Ha....I was about to say metalcore....although I think of metalcore as a fusion....like Demon Hunter....or is that nu metal.....ah....kids today....learn one new trick and it's a bygone genre. Laugh

    It's better than what I listened to when I was young....er......
     
    #77 JonC, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Names are given because they are descriptive of the thing they represent. Why was the word "death" used in that genre of music in the first place?

    How can a music genre entitled "death-metal" glorify God? What about that genre does "death" represent?
     
    #78 Revmitchell, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  19. FrigidDev

    FrigidDev Member

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    Yea, it's a fusion between post-hardcore/hardcore with heavy metal.

    Demon Hunter is melodic metal/metalcore .

    I agree, the genres are kinda hard to keep up with :)

    I actually already described what death represents in death metal. It's the name of the band, "Death", who started the genre back in the '80s.

    If you want a description of death metal, take this:

    "Death metal is an extreme subgenre of heavy metal. It typically employs heavily distorted guitars, tremolo picking, deep growling vocals, blast beat drumming, minor keys or atonality, and complex song structures with multiple tempo changes."


    Also, you're completely side-stepping all the different arguments, and focusing on something as petty as the name of the genre.
     
  20. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    "Feath"?
     
    #80 Rolfe, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
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