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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Nov 16, 2008.
Do you agree with what is said?
It couldn't be more correct.
Absolutely true. Thanks Dale.
The one thing that was repeated throughout the video was the Biblical illiteracy of the church these days. I think that is probably the most damaging thing that is happening now. It amazes me how little Christians know of the Bible. If we know God's word, we can easily pinpoint false teachers. But if we do not know what God says, false teachers can easily suck us into the black hole of apostasy. Very sad indeed, and so easily avoided simply by asking "yea, hath God said....."
The dominant theme of the comments was that "Christians" and "Christian homes" are Biblically illiterate and that Churches are doing little to change this fact. Perhaps it is because the preachers are afraid to do so. Perhaps it is because the preacher is either Biblically illiterate himself or too lazy to take the time required to prepare an expository message; rather they will present a 15 minute "Rotary sermon" and then dismiss the congregation to Sunday dinner at their favorite restaurant.
I was particularly pleased that two of the speakers were bold enough to mention the names of two people who are very popular but whom I consider heretics, Schuler[sp] and Osteen. I understand that Schuler's son recent left his "father's congregation" [to be interpreted literally] because of the lack of Biblical preaching.
Another speaker mentioned something that we saw acted out recently. When the homosexuals invaded a church in Michigan the pastor found it necessary to tell the congregation that this was not a church drama. Sadly many churches have elected to entertain the congregation rather than to expound on God's revelation to us.
I only recognized one name of the speakers, Ascol. It appears that there are many Christians leaders out there who are concerned about the condition of the church. For those unaware of it Dr Mohler, president of Southern Seminary, has a web site with an excellent treatise each day.
We should be careful not to make the problems of individual church equal the problems in the "Church." The Church, which doesn't actually exist except in some minds, has always been divided, filled with error and a useless fantasy. Only individual congregations go wrong, just as many individual churches hold fast to sound doctrine, sound preaching, and sound evangelism.
That said, it is true that a large number of churches have been overwhelmed by the culture. And in eschewing sound doctrine, preaching and evangelism, have attracted thousands of people with itching ears.
I was just reading about Paula White, who divorced her husband, who was the co-pastor of their megachurch. The bank has called a 12-million-dollar loan for immediate payment.
How about Bishop Earl Paulk, whose megachurch was reduced to a handful after it became public that he had engaged in wife-swapping with some of the church staff.
Then there's my church, which runs about 70 in worship services, whose pastor is faithful to the gospel, is doctrinally sound, and whose members are obsessed with making sure that all that is said and done glorifies God. My church is not perfect; it's just like its members, all flawed. Each week, our Godly youth workers go to the trailer park and get 20 kids whose parents have never set foot inside a church, but are glad to get them out of the house for a couple of hours. They will be taught by teachers with tender hearts filled with love for these undisciplined youngsters, and some day, God will bring some of them to confess Christ as their Lord.
Churches gone astray? You bet. But God has always had a people, who have not bowed the knee to Baal. So far we've not had a single sermon on how to have a great sex life.
I'd have to say the son had a great teacher in his dad... A real chip off the old block... </sarcasm>
Wonderful to hear Tom.That's very encouraging.
When I first stated to reply I was going to ask about those 70 worship services.Then I noticed the preposition :"in".The folks in attendance at your church exceeds that of my own.
While the state of the church in general might be summarised with the word Laodicea, I appreciate the reminder that it does not descirbe the entire church.
I appreciate Tom's words, our little church of about 25 would be very much the same as he describes. I find myself getting so worked up about 'the church' and its mess that I can forget to be grateful that we too are a part of the church and the only local church that we really are responsible for us. We have better be constantly on guard that we keep our walk with the Lord and service for Him on track.
I hope this doesn't get misunderstood but would you let your kids be taught by people or about something you know nothing about? We have groups of kids like this also and it's always the prevailing thought when I try to sit down with the parents. I try to get the parents to come if for no other reason but to hear what their kids are being taught. I don't understand complacency when it comes to your kids.
We do the same type things. Every parent who sends their children signs a from acknowledging that their children will be hearing a Bible lesson. All parents are welcome and some pop in now and then.
Anyway - parents and their children are not really on topic to this thread, do you think?
I didn't listen to all of it, but what I did hear was very true. Christians have mostly become "lukewarm". Many can't find most of the books of the Bible and couldn't quote anything other than John 3:16--if even that. Many professing Christ have no desire to be used of Him, to use the talents He has given them, to take any effort to become holy as God said we must be, or to share the gospel message with others. Will Jesus even find faith when He returns? Luke 18:8
I think this is wise counsel. When you are blessed enough to be in a church without conflict, and where hearing biblical preaching and teaching take place, it is easy to begin to take those things for granted. That's when Satan can cut us off at the knees.
You are quite clear, and I agree with you. The parents (mostly single parents) of the kids we teach are always invited. Most have little interest in spiritual things, and couldn't care less about what their children are taught.
I mentioned that many of our kids come from a trailer park. Last summer we took our Vacation Bible School to that same place, and the mothers did drop by, had refreshments with the workers and kids. It was a comfortable setting for those adults who might not feel comfortable in a church building.
I recognized one of those guys. In fact, I've spoken with one of those guys on a few occassions and just sent him an email today.
I agree with these people wholeheartedly.
I think it is worse than what the video depicts.
When non-Christians speak about the lack of substance when they go to visit a particular church then we know the situation is bad.
That video shows how deceived so many pastors are in America. I have said for many years that are not pastors but just orators.
I am not so concerned that people have left God but am most concerned that God will leave America.
Thanks for the video... I just sent it to many people!
Just an interesting note. The question is phrased in the singular. Ie the Church. I've had discussion with others on this board who insist there is not one church or ecclessia but churches plural. So then if we think in the singular the church we would have to ask about what makes it the church? Cross denominational? or what? It wouldn't make much sense unless you identify the church you're talking about. If in the plural. You would have to say which churches have this problem because it may be true for their church but not for others. So the title of the thread is confussing unless you identify which church you are talking about and how it is defined.