What do you think is... .

Dear Brother Kiffin,

I guess I will try to led the Landmark counter attack. You wrote:

>1.January 21, 1527 Anabaptist Reformation begins

While I agree this is an important event, I would say it is more a revival of Anabaptism, than the beginning of the Anabaptists. What is very interesting is that within a few years there were Anabaptists all over Europe and in the very places where the Waldenses had been strongest a century earlier. It seems to me that there were plenty of Waldenses churches in hidding that came into the open after this. Zwingli seems to agreed as he said, "Anabaptism is no noveality, but has been around for 1200 years".

>2.1609 - The birth of the first Baptist Church
that was founded in Holland by John Smyth.

It has always amazed me that Baptist historians continue to look to Smyth and Helwys as milestones in Baptist history. On one hand if Whitsitt was right and Smyth baptized by pouring, he was not a Baptist and was nothing more than one of those "pouring Mennonties". On the other hand if Christian is right and Smyth baptized by immersion it would seem to idicate that the Mennonites baptized by immerision also, thus making Smyth just another in the line of Baptists.

>3. 1611 -The first Baptist Church on English soil

Same as above.

4. 1638 - Birth of the Particular Baptist movement

I would differ with your date of 1638. The first departure of the JLJ church was in 1633. Also it is interesting that the Kiffin Manuscript says those leaving the JLJ church 'joined' a Mr. Spilsbury, indicating that Spilsbury was already there. This added to another primary source from the 1630's which says there were Lollard colleges in London seems to connect the Baptists with the Anabaptists in England. Also the Whitsittites say that these Particular Baptists didn't immersion until 1641 (and thus ignore plenty of evidence to the contary)

5. 1644 - The First London Confession
is the first truly modern Baptist Confession that marries Anabaptist and Calvinist theology and solidifies and articulates Baptist theology in the tradition of the Reformation and away from Arminian theology.

Since I am a fan of the 1644 confession I will only add that there were some pretty good General Baptist, Anabaptist, and Waldenses confessions before then, but I agree none were as good as the 1644.

 

If limited to choosing only one most important event in Baptist history, I choose the foundation of Rhode Island colony by John Clarke and Roger Williams. My reasons are: (1) this was in many ways the firstfruits in the Baptist struggle for religious liberty; (2) this certainly was the pivotal event from a small sect struggling to promote and secure religious liberty to a denomination promoting and thriving under that liberty; (3) this was the foundation on which our religious liberty is built (historically, though politically on the First Amendment); and (4) this was possibly the very first governmental protection of true and full religious liberty. Though Baptist perseverance in preaching the gospel during and under persecution is in a very real sense more important than securing religious liberty, that is just too long of a history from which to pull out one event.

BTW, it was the Baptists - not the Deists, free thinkers, atheists, etc., etc. - that truly bought and paid the price of religious freedom here in the United States (and exported it elsewhere). If you ever read the Internet Infidels Board, you'd think they think they have a patent on it.

 

Rlvaughn,
Thanks for an insightful post. I think you are right.

 

Jesus was not only a Baptist... but a Jewish Baptist!... Brother Glen </font>[/QUOTE]He was not only a Jewish Baptist, He was a Primitive Baptist !

 

In my Baptist history it would be the day he saved me.

 

Our own personal Salvation!

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

[ August 14, 2002, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Justified ]