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What does Daniel 9:26 really refer to?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by firedome, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. firedome

    firedome New Member

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    EE,

    I am sure that you are aware of the destruction that was wrought on the country of Germany in WWII by the allied bombing campaign. I am also certain you have seen the destruction in photographs of that same campaign, but pictures are worthless and are incapable of describing the where, the when, and the how such destruction came about. I assume that you believe these descriptions of WWII. Then, why do you believe what an eyewitness said of the destruction of the city of Jerusalem? "Now, as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury, (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other such work to be done,) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne, and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valour had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those who dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those who came there believe it had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those who were for seditions; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind." The Works of Josephus, Book 7 Chapter 1.

    As for the dates of 132-135 A.D. History tells us that the emperor Hadrian rebuilt a city on the ruins of Jerusalem starting in 130 A.D. The city was subsequently named Aelia Capitolina. An uprising of the remaining Jews led by Simon Bar Kokhba lasted 4 years until crushed by the Romans. Subsequently, no Jew was allowed into the city. The Jews were not allowed back into the city until 1247 A.D. Encyclopedia of the Orient

    For one to say that a city can be rebuilt from destruction is not addressing the point that the city was destroyed in the first place. It is skirting the issue at hand. I'll use an example as follows: I live in a house that my father built and it is destroyed by a tornado and I rebuild it. When asked by my children about the history of the house in which we dwell, I don't say that this is the house that my father built. I tell my children how the house that my father originally built was destroyed by a tornado, and how I built a house on the same site.

    As a side note, it is quite interesting to note that Josephus stated that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was its second desolation.
     
  2. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Ed,

    THe Bible doesn't saying it. 2 Thess. 2:1-3 telling us, that, our gathering together shall not come till we shall see apostasy first and also we will face Antichrist revealed first too. It is very clear that we shall face Antichrist first before Christ comes.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Firedome: "As a side note, it is quite interesting to note that
    Josephus stated that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
    was its second desolation."

    That is historical and Biblical. The first desolation is documented
    in probably Jeremiah and Lametations.

    Firedome: "I am sure that you are aware of the destruction that
    was wrought on the country of Germany in WWII by the
    allied bombing campaign."

    Sixty years later, there is no sign of that
    destruction save that which was deliberately
    saved. 130AD - 70AD = 60 years. Thank you for making
    my point.

    Firedome: "History tells us that the emperor Hadrian rebuilt
    a city on the ruins of Jerusalem starting in 130 A.D."

    I'll check that out. I do recall reading that
    during this time the top of Mount Zion (AKA: Temple Mount)
    was a Roman Army tent city.

    DeafPosttrib: "2 Thess. 2:1-3 telling us, that, our gathering together
    shall not come till we shall see apostasy first
    and also we will face Antichrist revealed first too.
    It is very clear that we shall face Antichrist
    first before Christ comes. "

    I have a simple one question for you. Please show me where
    one verse in the Bible saying we shall face Antichrist
    first before Christ comes.

    That is the whole beauty of the pretribulation rapture/resurrection.
    We don't have to face the Antichrist.
    We don't have to face the Devil who indwells the Antichrist.
    Jesus done did it all already for us.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. firedome

    firedome New Member

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    EE,

    What point would that be?

    Maranatha,
    Rodney
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Sixty years is plenty of time
    to rebuild a city.
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Tim: "The timing works out fine: The covenant was confirmed
    with the Jews in the last week--first half-by Christ's ministry
    among them, mid-week by the new covenant in His blood,
    last half by His disciples'
    last exclusive ministry among the Jews. After that all
    the exclusively Jewish covenant requirements were fulfilled."

    I don't think a word of this is supported by Scripture.
    The two halves of the week are mentioned five times
    in the futuristic book of Revelation. 1260 days, 42 weeks,
    "time, times, and half a time". The ministry of Jesus
    was more likely two years than 3½-years.
    The ministry of the disciples to the Jews is more
    likely 19 years than 3½-years.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. firedome

    firedome New Member

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    EE,

    How does the reconstruction of a city constitute and support your statement of said city being destroyed in 70 A.D.? I don't quite follow this train of thought. Maybe it is way over my head. If my truck gets crushed by an asteroid and I find another of the same make and model I can say that is my original truck. [​IMG]

    Maranatha,
    Rodney
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    I went to Pensilvania, and went
    to see what a man said was the
    original hatchet used by George Washington
    to cut down the cherry tree.
    Sez i: "sure looks like it held up good!"
    "Yes" says he "only needed 3 new heads and
    12 new handles" [​IMG]

    I was just trying to difuse the "argument"
    somebody was going to bring up that the
    two each halfs of seven (each 3½-years)
    was during the time of Jesus
    and/or the early disciples. Well
    if Jesus Rose from the Dead in 33AD,
    then 70 AD comes 37 laters (nothing
    to do with multiples of 3½-years).
    And 60 years after 70AD Jeruslaem dis
    destroyed again (nothing
    to do with multiples of 3½-years).
    Sorry, if you have to change history
    to fit your eschatology, it is a
    poor eschatology. Try futurism some time [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    Ed,

    First of all, you're assuming those references in Revelation are still future--I'm not. And I'm not convinced they are refering to the same 3 1/2 years as found in Daniel's final week.

    However, I'm more curious how you came up with 2 years for the length of Jesus' ministry. 3 to 3 1/2 years is the generally accepted number based on careful comparison of the gospel accounts.

    The time period from the cross to Cornelius (the end of the exclusively Jewish ministry of the apostles) could as easily have been 3 1/2 years as 19. Acts is not specific on that point. So I'm going with Daniel's timetable. What's the scriptural basis for your 19?

    Tim
     
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