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Featured What Does "Inspired" Mean, Relative to the Bible?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Archie the Preacher, Jan 18, 2014.

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  1. Archie the Preacher

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    Yeshua you're repeating yourself.

    You just asked this and I answered you. Read it again.

    Take a look at Isaiah 38:8 in the King James Version and tell me. If you check the Hebrew words, you will find the KJV is dead on in the translations of the words. Go look and report back.
     
  2. Archie the Preacher

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    You need to read on the subjects

    In fact, the age of the Universe being approximately 13.7 billion years old has been established quite well. The finding is based on the apparent size of the Universe - which gives a result, and the speed of expansion of the Universe, which gives a result in accord with the size.

    Global warming? Partisan political garbage. Evolutionary processes? There's a lot of evidence for it; but it's by no means completely figured yet. But you - YOU - need to look at these matters on your own and not take someone else's word for it. God won't mind you looking and finding out things; it's not like you're going to discover some secret He's hiding behind the curtain.

    Our God does NOT encourage ignorance and fear.
     
  3. Archie the Preacher

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    Gas?

    Bless you, my son; on a good day, I could loft the Hindenburg.
    You'll have to forgive me, but this sounds like one of those questions where the wording is given 'special meaning'; and a 'Yes' or 'No' can be misconstrued. But I'll answer your question as I mean it.

    The Bible is absolutely reliable - correct, accurate, inspired and so forth - in terms of what it relates about God Himself, about the relationship between God and the Universe, between God and man, and about what God desires and accomplished to have the relationship between God and man on God's terms.

    Further, the Bible is absolutely reliable - correct, accurate, inspired and so forth - in terms of historical events. With the one obvious gaffe in Isaiah 38:8 - which is completely understandable due to the ignorance of the time. There are also some questions about names of individuals along the way. (For instance, Moses' father in law is identified as Jethro, priest of Midian (Exodus 2 and 18); in Numbers 10 Moses' father in law is identified as Raguel (Reuel in modern translations) the Midianite. I suppose Moses could have had two fathers in law, but I've never heard that mentioned. Nor have I ever heard of Moses having more than one wife. In the O.T. history, there are several places where the same person is identified by more than one name. It is confusing to some degree, but the answer may be as simple as you are both "Deacon" and "Rob", depending on where one met you. And it does not compromise the main message a bit.

    I must make a note here: The Bible's correctness, accurateness, inspiredness and so forthness DOES NOT mean man's understanding of all of it is correct. Blindingly obvious is the mistake between Galileo and the 'Bible says' faction. More immediately, I don't think ANYONE really understands all of Revelation and the "End Times". (Other than it will arrive when the Lord is ready.)

    Do I subscribe to the idea that all the autographs are without any flaw by modern standards? I do not believe they have to be. They are 'perfect', which means 'complete'; all the message God wants us to have is there and available. As I've said in other places, it's a silly argument at best, because we do NOT have access to any 'original' manuscripts - autographs - of the Bible texts.

    I know that offends some folks. That actually grieves me, but I find it more important to follow the directions of God than the dictates of men. This will offend some folks even more, but I've prayed over the matter on numerous occasions and the Lord hasn't seen fit to correct me - as He has in other matters. So even if I'm wrong, God continues to love me and use me in His service. And most of the Christian believers who know me - including my 'odd' ideas - tend to think I'm 'passable' at least.
     
  4. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    who's Ignorance?
     
  5. Archie the Preacher

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    You need to see this yourself

    Have you read the passage? (It takes up about five or six verses in Isaiah 38.) I think it to be remarkably self-evident, when viewed from a current perspective.

    If you have read it, allow me to remind you God cannot ever be ignorant. Or surprised, for that matter.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So you are saying that the originals, and the Bible versions of today, are infallible in regards tospiritual mattres, but flawed in other areas?

    That the Lord had no errors/mistakes in regrads to salvation issues and doctrines, but allowed for human error in areas of history and science then?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    was demon possession and Jesus casting them out, and healings, and His resurrection due to "ignormance of their times?"

    maybe red sea and plagues of Egypt also?
     
  8. Archie the Preacher

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    Yeshua, this comment was made regarding Isaiah 38 and nothing else.

    If you don't want to read the passage and make meaningful commentary, then don't. But do try to pay attention to what is being discussed.

    And try to understand this: I have answered your questions - your repeated and persistent questions - several times. I cannot enable you to comprehend. In other words, don't blame me if you cannot understand.
     
  9. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    I'm not getting it, explain please.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    maybe because it certainly seems that you say 'hold to no errors/mistakes", but counch that afterwards in terms that sound like you are saying the bible has mistakes/errors in the oringinal manuscrits, but still sufficient to have one read and see the Gospel in it!

    Again, are you sayingthe bible is accurate enough in areas to have the truth of the Gospel and jesus presented, as God main intent was, but not in other areas such as history and dates/names etc!
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I think that he is saying that to prophet, seemed like a miracle happened, but really was not that, just that isaiah not aware of the fact!
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm not getting it either. I can't see how you can explain the passage other than as a genuine miracle, with no logical or scientific errors possible in such a case, just God reaching down into nature and doing something incredible. Hopefully Archie will explain his point to us.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he does seem evasive when asked if he sees all scripture as fully inspired and infallible, as keeps mentioned "yes, in a spiritual sense, accomplishes what God intends it to do!"
     
  14. Archie the Preacher

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    JBH28, John, others as interested...

    I should think it obvious, the ignorance of the writers regarding the organization of the solar system. And I suppose the same ignorance of the 'Bible said' faction following.

    If one reads Isaiah 38:8(b) it says (KJV) "... So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down."

    The Sun moved back - and that is what the Hebrew word translated 'returned' means, 'moved back'. This is - according to the 'the Bible says' group who arrested Galileo - proof positive the Sun orbits the Earth. The Bible says '... the sun returned...' That's a literal statement and understanding.

    Another section which plays into this is Joshua 10 where the Bible records '... the sun stood still in the midst of heaven...' Well, obviously the Sun couldn't 'stand still' unless it was moving around the Earth, right? Again, proof positive the Sun orbits the Earth. At least according to the 'the Bible says' faction.

    If the Lord inspired, revealed and directed this be recorded, we may safely believe it is NOT a fraudulent episode or fairy tale. However, when the people writing it recorded it, they did so by writing exactly what they saw, colored by their limited understanding of how the solar system works. So let no one mistake this, I am not suggesting for a moment these witnessed events did not take place. Yeshua, read that sentence several times, I will not answer any questions from you about it. I am stating the obvious, the Sun does not orbit the Earth.

    What I am saying is these passages gave rise to some serious misunderstanding later, as the 'Bible said' faction read them 'literally' and concluded - as they already thought - the Sun orbits the Earth. From that, Nikky the Pollack and Galileo were both heretics as they denied the 'literal' words of the Bible. QED.

    With that, consider these questions and answer them at least to yourself:

    1. Does the Sun orbit the Earth, or the Earth orbit the Sun?
    2. Has that arrangement changed since the writing of Joshua and Isaiah?
    3. If the Sun does not orbit the Earth, why did God allow the Bible to read that way? (This is the important question.)
     
  15. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Have you ever looked at a sunset or a sunrise? Well, I guess technically no since the sun isn't revolving around the earth. Language is rich. The language here is from our perspective. From our perspective, this is what happened. No error here at all. You would never read anything else like this, so why read the Bible this way?

    We take the Bible literarily. No one takes the Bible literally 100% of the time. Because someone misinterprets something isn't God's fault. All the words of the Bible are "God breathed" and are without error. Someone mistranslating or misinterpreting these words doesn't make God's words error.
     
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah was not ignorant. The problem here is that we shouldn't rely on exegetes as incompetent as the ones who opposed Galileo! That's a non-starter. Modern exegetes have no problem with this passage. (I read a bunch of them when I was teaching through this book in a Japanese Bible school.) Before believing such passages to be evidence of errors in the Bible, I suggest you get some good, conservative, modern commentaries. This passage may easily be interpreted literally even considering modern science. Isaiah made no errors.

    Here is Keil & Delitzsch easily solving the problem:

     
    #76 John of Japan, Jan 28, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2014
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So you would agree that the red sea was parted, that there were 10 plaugues in Egypt, and that in NT, there were actual demon possessions and healings?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes the Lord might also have chosen to use natural items like earthquake, volcanos, storms etc to have his will done, as he controlled when/where those irems hit!
     
  19. Archie the Preacher

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    Sorry I brought it up.

    Anything I might say from here would simply be taken as offensive. I pointed it out, but I cannot force understanding. I'm done with it.
     
  20. Archie the Preacher

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    Other miracles

    Yes, I do.

    There are several 'scientific' explanations for some of these events - ranging from the plausible to the ridiculous. Since God is the one who designed and established all laws of nature, I do not find the idea that God used 'nature' in His dealings with man to be either impossible, unlikely or heretical.
     
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