What Does it Mean to Worship God in "Spirit and in Truth"?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by InTheLight, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight
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    Text is in John 4:23-24 NIV
    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    John 4:23-24 NASB
    But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

    Note the differences in the translations: "in the Spirit" vs. "in spirit"

    (BTW: KJV "in spirit"; ESV "in spirit"; NKJV "in spirit".)

    As far as I know this is the only direct instructions Jesus gives as to how we should worship. I understand the context of the previous verses meaning that worship is not to be confined to a physical location (as the Samaritans and Jews practiced it.) But what does worshiping in the Spirit mean--surrender to the Holy Spirit and let him lead you? And what about worshiping in spirit--be passionate about it? What does worshiping in truth mean--be doctrinally correct?

    These are important concepts and I don't know what they mean.
     
    #1 InTheLight, Mar 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2014
  2. Scarlett O.

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    Here is a link that helped me with "worshiping in spirit".

    It's an outline. Scroll down after the introduction to points I(B)(1 and 2).

    It described carnal (worship with the physical senses - i.e. incense, instruments, animal sacrifices, and more)) worship vs. spirit (emphasizes man's spirit communing with God's spirit) worship.

    http://executableoutlines.com/jn/jn4_20.htm
     
  3. salzer mtn

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    I think our spirit bares witness to the truth when it is preached, so therefore we know we are worshiping God. 1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One and ye know all things.
     
  4. percho

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    Can one truly worship Spirit the God without having and or being born of the Spirit of God which is the Spirit of Truth?
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    1Pe_2:5 you also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

    Heb 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,

    There are a number of verses that speak directly to the issue of worship in the NT. However, in John chapter 4 it speaks of worshiping in Spirit and Truth. What we see here is that worship must be done in two ways:

    1. Worship must be done according to scripture. In other words based on what we know about God given in His revelation.

    2. Worship must be done guided by the Spirit. This is not some mystical event that is based on experience but it does lend to the command to be filled with the Spirit:

    Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
    Eph 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
    Eph 5:19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,
    Eph 5:20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,


    Being filled with the Spirit is simply being submissive to the will of God. What goes on in our worship services far too often has more to do with our personal preferences than it does what we know about God and his attributes, his character.

    The Hebrews passage paints a pretty clear picture for us when it says:

    Heb 12:28,29 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.

    All these years man has been trying to offer his own worship to God his own way. Cain is the first recorded person to try this. Then when God refused it he was so filled with pride that he responded in a terrible way.

    Is our worship filled with reverence and awe?

    Do we see God as a God who is a consuming fire?

    Do we come to Him based on what He has revealed to us in His word about who He is?

    Are we coming in submission to the Spirit?

    Or is it all about us and what we want?
     
  6. InTheLight

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    This is the problem I'm running into trying to understand what worship consists of. The Bible speaks of doing it correctly, acceptably, and in spirit and in truth, but it doesn't give specifics.

    Yes, but this is subjective, isn't it?

    Right, but being submissive to the will of God is subjective.


    Here are some specifics, but even they are somewhat vague. There just isn't much in scripture to define what proper worship is about.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    No, it is not subjective.




    Maybe you are confusing define with application
     
  8. InTheLight

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    So if you asked 10 Christians what it means to be filled with the Spirit you would get the same 10 answers? Really, I don't think so.
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    Think jesus was telling her that the coming time, believers will not need to go to a site/temple to meet with God, but by having a spiritual relationship to the father, we can fellowship with and pray to him wherever we are at!

    That priviledge reserved though for just those who have the gospel , and the Holy Spirit!
     
  10. InTheLight

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    Yes, this was covered in my OP when I said:

    ...worship is not to be confined to a physical location (as the Samaritans and Jews practiced it.)


    Yes, well that's pretty obvious, isn't it? Wait a minute--is that what you think Jesus is saying by spirit and truth? That one must have the gospel (truth) and the spirit (Holy Spirit)?
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    That is not the determination for truth. Being filled with the Spirit means according to scripture to be in submission to the Spirit.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    yes, for those who possess/have the Holy Spirit residing in them , and hve received the Gospel are ONLY ones able to rightly worship, only ones the father will receive praise and worship from!
     
  13. HankD

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    Spirit : You must be born of the Spirit

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.​

    Truth: You must be sanctified through the word
    John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.​

    Then you can worship God.

    BTW the "you" in the sentence above is generic.
    And IOW JW's (or any unregenerate person) for instance, technically cannot worship God in Spirit and in truth.
    Third - the definite article is not in the Koine Greek (in spirit and in truth).

    HankD​
     
    #13 HankD, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  14. Yeshua1

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    True, as paul stated to us that being filled by/with him is dependent upon us submitting/yeilding to His control, to doinga nd actingas he leads and directs to doing!this is why a daily, not one time thing, as we have to decide when tempted to relying upon our selves to keep submitting ourselves to His control/influence!
     
  15. righteousdude2

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    Why not tell us...

    What you think it means to Worship in Spirit and truth? I see the verses, but no real explanation?
     
  16. InTheLight

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    I don't know, hence the question.
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    In truth- believe that Jesus died for my sins, was raised again for me, and that He is now Lord!

    In Spirit, the Holy Spirit Himself intercedes for us before the throne of God!
     
  18. percho

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    But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. Spirit the God: and they that worship him (God the Father) must worship him (God the Father) in spirit and in truth. John 4:23,24

    Jesus was the prophet of God speaking for God his Father. See Hebrews 1:1,2

    At the time of this speaking who was the only one who could have called God, his Father?

    And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
     
  19. righteousdude2

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    That is as honest of...

    an answer I have ever gotten on this baord! Thanks! There will be some answers from some good intentioned folks.
     

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