What does it mean?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Nov 24, 2010.

  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

    I think most of us concentrate on the sin part. But generally we skip, it seems, the falling short of Gods glory part.

    I heard June Hunt say something like, man fails to give Him glory, and an accurate accounting of who He is. It got me thinking about the passage, anyway.

    Others have said that our whole entire purpose, and being, is to give Glory to God.

    What does it mean?

    :BangHead:
     
  2. freeatlast

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    While I agree that we fall short of giving God glory, I do not believe that the passage is speaking of that. It is saying that we do not have the same Glory as God so we fall short. It is not simply about us, as much as it is about Him, and what He is. We do not match up to Him. In other words it is not about what we fail to give Him but why we fail in our being. (Glory=magnificence, excellence, preeminence, dignity, grace) He is all those things and we are not. That is the point I feel that is being made.
     
    #2 freeatlast, Nov 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2010
  3. preacher4truth

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    freeatlast,

    Thanks. That's the usual consensus.

    I just find it lacking. Not from you, just in general. I think it is just not that pat and simplistic, and that there is even more to this.

    Thanks for your input.

    :thumbs:
     
  4. ReformedBaptist

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    21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Given the argument Paul is making from Romans 1, it seems that verse 23 is the culmination concluding both Jew and Gentile under sin. Everyone of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Man is called the image and glory of God in 1 Cor 11:7. Mankind was created in the image of God. By sin mankind has fallen from it, come short of it, missed the mark. And there is none righteous, not one. Man was created upright, in holiness and righteousness, but by sin has fallen from it and marred the image of God, the glory of God.

    This righteousness is regained and imputed to us by faith in Jesus Christ, that is, the righteousness of God.
     
  5. tank1976

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    When we sin God is not glorified. Every person does this very thing. TO me, it is stating that we all sin...in this sinning God is not glorified. When God is not glorified we sin.

    I know it sounds circular or cause and effect, but in many way it is that way.
    Just a thought on the issue.
     
  6. preacher4truth

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    Thanks for your response, tank.

    I don't think, myself included, many of us give a whole lot of thought to the latter part of the text.

    Thanks again.

    :thumbs:
     
  7. DixieBoy

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    I do like the way ERV translates this verse:

    Rom 3:23 All have sinned and are not good enough to share God's divine greatness.
     
  8. preacher4truth

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    Dixieboy,

    Thanks for sharing that. I haven't seen it put that way, and it sheds a different light upon it.

    Thanks again.


    :thumbs:
     
  9. ReformedBaptist

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    From John Gill.
     
  10. Van

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    Hi Preacher4Truth, interesting thread. Many of us read a familiar verse and just gloss over it, refreshing our memory of what we have discerned in the past. But that is not the way we grow. We grow by reading and studying and praying and applying.

    The phrase "glory of God" certainly refers to some characteristic or attribute of God. In this light, pun intended, I see God as a bright shinning perfection, and anywhere He is is filled with that bright shinning perfection. Thus the kingdom of God can be considered the glory of God.

    Now lets look at a few of the uses of the phrase. First we will stick with Paul because he wrote our verse, Romans 3:23.

    In Romans 5:2, Paul seems to use it interchangeable with the kingdom of God, we hope to enter the kingdom so we hope of the glory of God, not just in location but also in perfection and purity.

    Another way Paul uses the phrase is "to" the glory of God. Here we see that whatever actions of merit that we might be involved with, it is not to our glory but, picture me pointing skyward, to the glory of God. See Romans 15:7.

    In 2 Corinthians 4:6 we see revelation of the light of the glory of God, so again the usage appears to refer to our knowledge of the glorious perfection and love of God seen through the face of Jesus.
     
  11. DaChaser1

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    Think God is trying to reveal to us that the very best human among us is no where near being the type/kind of person rightiousness wise that God requires in order to allow him to fellowship with us...

    Kind of ties into prophet Isaiah , where our very best human effort/work is as filty rags before Holy God...

    Setting us up for the Cross of Cross, as God telling us that He alone can do what is needed to bring us back to the place where we, in Christ, can once again approach the God of Glory!
     
  12. Tom Bryant

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    I agree with much of what has been said.
    But I connect Romans 3:23 with John 1:14


    That we fall short of the revealed glory of God who is Jesus Christ. Most people veiw sin on a movable scale in comparison to other people. But God compares our sin with the complete and total righteousness of Christ.
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    Some of it ,or most of our coming short of God's glory...would be any defect, or blemish, or....want of conformity to THe Lord Jesus's Holy Glory being manifested . It will not be fully manifested in us...until GLORIFICATION.

    This ROMANS 8 passage we use in discussing the DoG.....is really also about what our sanctifcation actually leads to...it is progressive and future.
    I think this verse points to or sums up a good part of it

    God's glory= 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
     
  14. percho

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    Do you think John 1:14 was stated in general or did they see his glory at a specific time? As on the mount?

    I say that because I believe the glory of God we are short of is eternal life. The glorious church will be the resurrected to eternal life church which will be the kingdom of God.
     
    #14 percho, Jan 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2012
  15. Mark_13

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    [Tom Bryant]
    That we fall short of the revealed glory of God who is Jesus Christ. Most people veiw sin on a movable scale in comparison to other people. But God compares our sin with the complete and total righteousness of Christ.

    [Iconoclast]
    Some of it, or most of our coming short of God's glory...would be any defect, or blemish, or....want of conformity to THe Lord Jesus's Holy Glory being manifested . It will not be fully manifested in us...until GLORIFICATION.


    Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but I don't think when it mentions the "Glory of God" in Romans 3:23, we are meant to picture Christ's example of righteousness while here on earth, as conveyed in the Gospels. That's not what its talking about. Maybe Iconclast is implying that to some extent as well above, but to make it explicit, Christ was still a man while on earth, and as Paul says,

    "(1 Cor 15:50) Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

    So Christ, when in flesh and blood was not indicative of God's glory.

    And certainly when Christ took on the sins of the World at Calvary, God did not see him as having His glory. Christ came to bear the sins of mankind.

    I personally think of such passages as where it says God dwells in unapproachable light and so forth.

    The passage in Romans mentions Christ, but not in that passage the shared glory of the Son with the Father:

    (Rom 3:23-25) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
     
  16. Tom Bryant

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    I am sure that they also saw his glory on the Mount, but they also saw it in his resurrection. They saw God's glory through Christ in all his miracles. I would see it as general.
     
  17. Winman

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    Well, I'll tell you P4T, but you are probably just going to get mad.

    We come short. Man can do righteous works, but he cannot be 100% righteous. He comes short.

    Let's say you shoot an arrow at a target. It flies out there, but falls short. It lands 10 feet in front of the target. Now, the arrow did fly a distance, and man can do good, but he can never do good enough.

    The Bible doesn't say man has no righteousness, it says all his righteousnesses are as filthy rags. The Lord has a perfect suit on, he is perfect, he is 100% righteous, no sin whatsoever. You have a suit too, but it has been dirtied and torn by all the sin you have committed. It is a filthy rag. It is marred by sin.

    When the scriptures say there is none good, no, not one, it is speaking of 100% righteous. It means to be perfect, without any sin whatsoever. It is not saying that EVERYTHING you do is sin. When you tell the truth, it is not sin, otherwise God's laws are meaningless.

    So, we can all do good, but we come far short of the glory of God. That is what the verse is saying, although I know everybody will rave at me now. But what I have told you is true.

    Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

    Again, this verse is not saying men cannot do good. Jesus himself said sinners do good. By "good" here means 100% righteous, without even one sin. We all come short of this. But sinners can do good.

    Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

    There you go, take it or leave it.
     
  18. Skandelon

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    It think much clarity comes by looking at the verses leading up to the verse in question:

    20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

    Notice the shift in the type of righteousness Paul is addressing from verse 20 to verse 21? We all fall short of the 'righteousness according to the law' and thus we fail to glorify him by the law. BUT, there is another righteousness from God which comes through faith in Jesus Christ, and by this we can and do glorify Him.
     
  19. DaChaser1

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    To qualify as being a "good work" in sight , it MUST be done with perfect intent and by a pure heart!

    mankind is flawed, sinners, so we neither have the pure heart not the totally selfish act/deed requirement!

    We already start out at birth 100% dead in our sin nature , and keep piling up more sin debt owed God every time chose to willfully sin!
     
  20. Winman

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    Who has a perfect heart? Do you have a perfect heart? Are all your intents perfect? I think your constant meaningless posts prove your intent is not perfect.

    Even Christians are selfish to a degree. We want God to be pleased with us, isn't that selfish? How is that different from an unsaved person who tries to please God? Cornelius was not saved, but he prayed constantly and gave alms to the poor, and God recognized his works. That alone refutes you.

    Where does the Bible say we are born dead in sin? Where does the Bible say we are born with a sin nature? You constantly say this, but you never provide scripture to support your statements. If you were required to show scripture to support what you say, you would have nothing.

    You may disagree with me, but I almost always show scripture to support my view. You simply deny the scripture I provide and make unsupported statements.

    The scriptures do not teach that man cannot do righteous works. I will provide scripture to show that.

    Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

    This verse is speaking of a lost man who dies "in his sin that he hath sinned". It says "all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned".

    Man can do righteous works, but if a man commits even one sin, then a man must pay for that sin, and the wages of sin is death. This is why the scriptures say "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". It is not that man cannot do good, but no man does good enough, all men come short of this. To earn salvation a man would have to be perfectly 100% righteous, never committing even one sin.

    If you would study the scriptures instead of mindlessly parroting false doctrine you have been taught, you would discover this.
     
    #20 Winman, Jan 27, 2012
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