What does this verse mean?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by SAVED4LIFE, Nov 20, 2001.

  1. SAVED4LIFE

    SAVED4LIFE
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    Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Was Jesus saying that the people he was talking to would still be alive when he came back? If so.......then I'm confused.
     
  2. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SAVED4LIFE:
    Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Was Jesus saying that the people he was talking to would still be alive when he came back? If so.......then I'm confused.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    From John Gill:

    till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom; which is not to be understood of his personal coming in his kingdom in the last day, when he will judge quick and dead; for it cannot be thought, that any then present should live to that time, but all tasted of death long before, as they have done; for the story of John’s being alive, and to live till then, is fabulous, and grounded on a mistake which John himself has rectified at the close of his Gospel: nor of the glorious transfiguration of Christ, the account of which immediately follows; when he was seen by Peter, James, and John, persons now present; for that, at most, was but an emblem and a pledge of his future glory: rather, of the appearance of his kingdom, in greater glory and power, upon his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension to heaven; when the Spirit was poured down in an extraordinary manner, and the Gospel was preached all over the world; was confirmed by signs and wonders, and made effectual to the conversion and salvation of many souls; which many then present lived to see, and were concerned in: though it seems chiefly to have regard to his coming, to show his regal power and authority in the destruction of the Jews; when those his enemies that would not he should reign over them, were ordered to be brought and slain before him; and this the Apostle John, for one, lived to be a witness of.
     
  3. Brian

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    I believe that it has to do with the transfiguration which is recorded directly after this scripture. The Apsotles were so moved that they wanted to build alters for each supernatural being present.
     
  4. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian:
    I believe that it has to do with the transfiguration which is recorded directly after this scripture. The Apsotles were so moved that they wanted to build alters for each supernatural being present.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It is extremely unlikely that Christ meant the transfiguration, for it occurred only 6 days after he said these words, and how many who would taste death in only 6 days?

    It is much more likely that it means the resurrection, Pentecost, or even the destruction of Jerusalem, 40 years after this was said by the Lord.
     
  5. Chris Temple

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    Folks:

    I'm moving this thread to the theology forum.
     
  6. rlvaughn

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    I was originally taught and held to the transfiguration idea of the "coming" kingdom. But it now seems that the main impetus of this idea is the teaching that the Kingdom is not yet, but yet to come, rather than anything contextual. I cannot add much to the actual meaning of this verse. But Gill's point is relevant - at most the transfiguration would seem an emblem or pledge. It represents at least 3 things of the kingdom: not of this world, made up of OT & NT saints, and focuses on Jesus.

    But to move from this position leaves me at somewhat of a loss, because none of the other single suggestions seem to fulfill what I would expect. Is it possible that it covers the resurrection, outpouring of the Spirit, and extension of the church throughout the region? Mark 9 says "come with power."

    Just some thoughts and questions, not answers.
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    Context of the quotation is important <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There are three main opinions<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Transfiguration<LI>Pentecost<LI>Destruction of the Temple in AD70[/list]I opt for the picture of the "Coming of Christ in the kingdom" via the Church at Pentecost as the best choice.
     
  8. TomVols

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    Could this be referring to the Kingdom's personal presence, as in Mt 12:28, etc.? Just a thought.
     
  9. John Wells

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    From three of my most oft used and trusted resources:

    Matthew 16:28 (ESV)
    28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> In all 3 of the synoptic gospels, this promise is made immediately prior to the Transfiguration (Mark 9:1–8; Luke 9:27–36). Furthermore the word for “kingdom” can be translated “royal splendor.” Therefore, it seems most natural to interpret this promise as a reference to the Transfiguration, which “some” of the disciples—Peter, James, and John, would witness only 6 days later. - MacArthur, J. (1997, c1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (Electronic ed.) (Mt 16:28). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Historically, three major views have been maintained by biblical scholars: (1) Jesus is speaking of His triumphal entry into Jerusalem a few days hence; (2) the reference is to the resurrection of Christ and His victory over death; or (3) because of the position this verse occupies in the text of Matthew, the reference is to the Lord’s transfiguration, which follows immediately in Matthew’s Gospel. Proximity of story favors the latter view, which is verified by the description given by Simon Peter in 2 Pet. 1:16 of the “coming” (parousia, Gk.) of the Lord in power. – Believer’s study Bible. 1997, c1995 (electronic ed.) (Mt 16:23). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> This statement has caused many to misunderstand the kingdom program, for they wonder how the disciples saw the Lord coming in His kingdom. The explanation is found in the following event, the transfiguration (17:1-8).
    17:1-8 (Mark 9:2-13; Luke 9:28-36). This chapter division in Matthew is an unfortunate break in the flow of this biblical passage. Jesus had just said that some standing with Him would not die before they saw the Son of Man coming in His kingdom (Matt. 16:28). The continuing story occurred six days later when Jesus took . . . Peter, James, and John with Him up a high mountain by themselves. Luke wrote that this event occurred “about eight days after” (Luke 9:28), which includes the beginning and ending days as well as the six days between. The high mountain may have been Mount Hermon, near Caesarea Philippi, for Jesus was in that region (Matt. 16:13). There Jesus was transfigured. - Walvoord, J. F. (1983-c1985). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures (Mt 16:27-17:1). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
  10. Chris Temple

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    John -

    You've got to read more than dispensational commentators! ;) Most opt for the transfiguration (the least likely of all) because their presuppositions cannot conceive that the Kingdom of Christ comes in before "the end times".
     
  11. S. Baptist

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
    John -

    You've got to read more than dispensational commentators! ;) Most opt for the transfiguration (the least likely of all) because their presuppositions cannot conceive that the Kingdom of Christ comes in before "the end times".
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,

    Lu 17:21 the kingdom of God is within you.


    Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
    Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,


    Jesus has "two Kingdoms", on this earth, one "spiritual" (Church) and one "physical" (Millennium Reign).
     
  12. swaimj

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    John,
    Read widely and think deeply on this question, but do not discount despensational views. Some discount that the statement could refer to the mount of transfiguration because they do not believe in a literal future kingdom in which Jesus will appear in his full glory as he did on the mount of transfiguration. ;)
     
  13. Joey M

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    I like Matthew Henrey's take on this:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> (2.) The near approach of his kingdom in this world, v. 28. It was so near, that there were some attending him who should live to see it. As Simeon was assured that he should not see death till he had seen the Lord’s Christ come in the flesh; so some here are assured that they shall not taste death (death is a sensible thing, its terrors are seen, its bitterness is tasted) till they had seen the Lord’s Christ coming in his kingdom. At the end of time, he shall come in his Father’s glory; but now, in the fulness of time, he was to come in his own kingdom, his mediatorial kingdom. Some little specimen was given of his glory a few days after this, in his transfiguration (ch. 17:1); then he tried his robes. But this points at Christ’s coming by the pouring out of his Spirit, the planting of the gospel church, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the taking away of the place and nation of the Jews, who were the most bitter enemies to Christianity. Here was the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Many then present lived to see it, particularly John, who lived till after the destruction of Jerusalem, and saw Christianity planted in the world. Let this encourage the followers of Christ to suffer for him,
    Henry, Matthew, Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Bible," <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: Joey M ]
     
  14. Chris Temple

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    Yes, thank you Joey.

    The kingdom has come (Matt 12:28,29), the kingdom is here (Rom 14:17; 1 Cor 4:20; Col 1:13), the kingdom will be consumated in the future (Acts 1:6,7).
     
  15. John Wells

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    Chris,

    I believe that the kingdom of Christ has come, but I have not "see(n) the Son of Man coming in his kingdom,” an altogether different event. For your premise to hold water, Jesus would have to have appeared after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. The Transfiguration was a “taste” of when Jesus will come “in the last day.”

    As for dispensationalism, I do not strictly adhere to this teaching, but I do find myself on the side of most dispensationalists most of the time. I guess you and I both have company in our respective camps! ;)
     
  16. swaimj

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    The phrase "some who are standing here" seems to argue for the transfiguration. In the context, Jesus is speaking only to the twelve (cf. 12:5, 13, 21). If the event spoken of is either the resurrection or the day of Pentecost, then "some who are standing here" refers to all of them except Judas as he is the only one who would have missed these events. On the other hand, if the event is the transfiguration, then "some who are standing here" refers to Peter, James and John. Only these three witnessed the transfiguration. This makes more sense.
     

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