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Discussion in 'Politics' started by matt wade, Sep 24, 2009.
Alatide wanted an answer to this queston, but didn't have the guts to post it.
I will not vote for any politician that supports abortion regardless of what party they belong to. Nancy Johnson was a prominent Republican here in Connecticut for years. And believe me, we need some Republicans in this state. But I never voted for her because she supported abortion.
Before the election Obama made it very clear he supported abortion. I do believe a vote for Obama is a vote in support of abortion.
I'm going to pick on you here, Winman... I apologize ahead of time.
Sorry to be picking nits here... but the question was 'Do you believe that, by voting for Obama, a person is also supporting abortion?' not
'Do you believe that, by voting for Obama, YOU are also supporting abortion?'
To answer the original question is to offer one's opinion on the matter but it doesn't take into account that someone CAN support Obama but abhor abortion. (To take it even further I would speculate that even if McCain would have won the election he would not have gotten rid of abortion, so one could use the left-handed argument that voting for McCain was a vote for abortion as well.)
Of course I think that argument is totally absurd, but that's a way it could be turned around.
Personally the abortion issue is very important to me and kept me from voting for BHO, but I am not so narrow-minded as to think that every single person who voted for BHO is a supporter of abortion. That would be like saying that every single person who voted Republican is pro death penalty, which to be quite truthful, I am on the fence about.
A better question would be 'Do you believe that OTHER people are capable of opposing abortion while still voting for BHO?'
Wrong. When you vote for someone you support all the positions they said they held in advance. You may not agree with them but you have supported them. You can't vote for someone while withholding permission to do those things you disagree with. When you vote for him you vote for the whole thing. Whether you like it or not. Christian have no business voting for anyone who supports the dismemberment and slaughter of innocent unborn children. Ever, or the leaving of born children who survived an abortion in the linen closet to die. The callousness of the hearts is astounding. Everyone of them have blood on their hands. And the only thing that will save them from judgment on their sin is repentance and the grace of God.
Then why even have this poll, Rev?
I respectfully disagree with you here, Rev... I understand your use of the term 'support' to be to willinging uphold a position. If we had to agree and support every position of a candidate before we could vote for them, then we wouldn't be voting very much as there's VERY few people that would see eye to eye on every single issue.
I believe that other people that voted for Obama can be against Abortion.
Obama advertised his love of abortion.
Obama promised to promote abortion.
A vote for Obama was a vote for abortion.
No amount of double speak or circular logic is going to change that fact.
And we have to live with our votes. When you place your vote for someone we all vote for every position they made public before hand. The reason for this is we cannot vote for a person but at the same time withhold permission from issue we disagree with. When you vote you have enabled every position. Simply saying you don't support this issue or that does not remove the fact.
If we would drop the false notion that we can separate our vote from certain issues the person we voted for holds then we would most likely have better candidates. We have to say even though I disagree with this issue or that is the consequences of the issue I disagree with worth looking over for the bigger picture. In the case of Obama libbies have said that the slaughter of unborn children is an issue worth overlooking because of the bigger picture they see. And that my friend is sad and disgusting.
Of course on this board there are libbies who actually support abortion.
I agree with you 100% on this point, Rev... it is disturbing... BUT! You state it here yourself... libbies overlook the abortion issue, much like I overlook the death penalty issue. Just because I voted for McCain doesn't mean I support the death penalty. I wouldn't have been able to vote for ANYONE if I felt I had to be in complete agreement with every single issue.
This is where we, as conservatives fail misserably at understanding the liberal position, we assume that they've got the same moral compass as we've got, but they just do not see abortion as being murder and sit back in their cocoon of worldly logic, making their points about how a fetus really isn't a human.
DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME! I AM TOTALLY AGAINST ABORTION AND VOTED REPUBLICAN IN THE LAST ELECTION.
There are two kinds of "support" I suppose.
1. Intellectual agreement and 2. tangible actions which cause an increase in abortion.
Voting for Obama caused an increase in abortion.
Intellectual disagreement with abortion while voting for abortion by voting for Obama is merely a fig leaf meant to salve a searing conscience.
It means you supported it with your vote.
It doesn't matter what moral compass they have. I don't want to understand what allows someone to rip a child limb by limb. Everyone knows a child is a child pre-birth or otherwise. Making excuses for convenience or women's rights is not a lack of knowledge or understanding.
That is right your actions are just as much support as your total agreement.
Then quit paying taxes... as -that- is surely as much support for abortion as anything else here is, isn't it? You're just being stubborn and refusing to believe that some folks hate abortion as much as you but can still vote for BHO. Personally I couldn't bring myself to vote for him for that very issue, along with a number of others... but many liberals CAN divorce the two issues from one another.
You don't have an option to quit paying taxes. You do have an option on who you vote for.
You've also just figured out the entire problem with your statement, "many liberals CAN divorce the two issues from one another". Their ability to divorce the two issues shows their ability to say that it doesn't matter if a candidate supports murdering children.
I don't believe that a single person on this board who voted for Obama would have voted for him if, as part of his platform, he supported murdering 16 year old children. Why, then, are they making the murder of a baby less important than the murder of a 16 year old?
That's not what the topic of this thread is though.
I realize this, Wade, I was making a rhetorical comment, but you ARE supporting them none-the-less.
Then why won't ANYONE on the right just say that it is possible for liberals to divorce these two issues from one another and just because they do, that doesn't make them EVIL. Wrong for sure, but not evil.
By analogy it is the topic.
But let's choose an analogy that is a little closer to the abortion issue.
At the state level Obama advocated abandoning newly born infants to allow them to die of neglect.
Let's use matt wade's words and see how it works...
I don't believe that a single person on this board who voted for Obama would have voted for him if, as part of his platform, he supported abandoning newly born infants to allow them to die of neglect. Why, then, are they making the murder of an unborn baby less important than the murder by neglect of an newly born infant?
Does that analogy explain it better for you?
BTW, I personally do believe that there are some on this board who would have voted for Obama even under this scenario.
A mental device to rationalize evil does not make the act any less evil.
Only coaches should call me Wade, you can just call me Matt .
I understand that it is possible for them to divorce the issue, and that's the problem! The issue of murdering children should never be one we over look. it may not make them evil, but it means they support evil.
It makes them very evil and nothing else.