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what happens if you die while you're sinning? Pt. 2

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by gekko, May 17, 2006.

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  1. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


    see - it was the sin within paul that had sinned. make sense? it was unwilful sin.

    those that wilfully sin will not enter heaven.
     
    #1 gekko, May 17, 2006
  2. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Gekko you are all over the place. You say you weren't talking about something, when you obviously were. Then you say only God can know a man's heart then you insist that man can know man's heart and you keep trying to dance around the issue.

    Can you know a man's heart or can only God know a man's heart? God or both?
     
    #2 J. Jump, May 17, 2006
  3. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I know Paul was not perfect and so did He but do you really think Apostle Paul preached against adultery and kicked people out of the church and then turn around and do it himself.

    Pleaseee read the following Scriptures carefully.

    "16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    "17": All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
     
    #3 Brother Bob, May 17, 2006
  4. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    J.Jump said "Can you know a man's heart or can only God know a man's heart? God or both? "

    to bluntly answer your question = God.

    now please understand what i am saying here: man can see the fruits of man - right? right. so we can know them by their fruit.

    IF THEY HAVE NOT GOOD FRUIT THEY ARE NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS!
     
    #4 gekko, May 17, 2006
  5. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    i do not insist that man can know man's heart. never have i said that.
     
    #5 gekko, May 17, 2006
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    All sin is willful.
     
    #6 KenH, May 17, 2006
  7. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    We can also look at the words Jesus spoke when He said, 'Out of the abundance of the heart, man speaketh.'

    So, in a sense, we can know man's heart. But only by the Spirit of God which revealeth all things.
     
    #7 standingfirminChrist, May 17, 2006
  8. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Gekko if you can't know a man's heart then you can't know whether or not a man is saved. You have to know a man's heart.

    The fruit you keep speaking of is the fruit of false prophets/teachers.

    Has nothing to do with people in general. You nor I can know whether or not someone is saved. Only God can know that.
     
    #8 J. Jump, May 17, 2006
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Naw, gekko was talking about the fruits of the individual not any teacher or prophet. Stay with it gekko for that is why John the Baptist turned many away from baptism.
     
    #9 Brother Bob, May 17, 2006
  10. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    i know that J.Jump. i've never said otherwise - "you will know them by their fruits"

    do you believe that ONLY applies to false prophets/teachers?

    duh NO!


    quoting KenH:
    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


    what does this passage mean to you KenH?
     
    #10 gekko, May 17, 2006
  11. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    and like brotherbob said - i was talking about the fruits of the individual.

    brotherbob - what do you mean by "Stay with it gekko for that is why John the Baptist turned many away from baptism." ?
     
    #11 gekko, May 17, 2006
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    They didn't have the fruits gekko, just like you been saying.

    I gotta go take care of a funeral. I will be back if Lord's willing.
     
    #12 Brother Bob, May 17, 2006
  13. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    see you later brobob
     
    #13 gekko, May 17, 2006
  14. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Gekko I know exactly what you were talking about, unfortunately the verse a Scripture that you and others keep using is only talking about false prophets/teachers.

    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    The context is false prophets not everyone in general. You are applying a principal that isn't applicable to any other than false prophets.

    And just a FYI you might want to consider cutting out the doh's and duh's and what not. It really shows a lack of maturity.

    Bottom line is as much as you and everyone else that believes the false doctrine of man being able to know 100% who is saved and who isn't you can't. You can't. I can't. Brother Bob can't. Claudia can't. Hope of Glory can't. James can't. Joe Bloe can't.

    The only person that can know for sure if they are saved is that person and God.
     
    #14 J. Jump, May 17, 2006
  15. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    J.Jump said "Bottom line is as much as you and everyone else that believes the false doctrine of man being able to know 100% who is saved and who isn't you can't. You can't. I can't. Brother Bob can't. Claudia can't. Hope of Glory can't. James can't. Joe Bloe can't.

    The only person that can know for sure if they are saved is that person and God. "

    I KNOW THAT. AND HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. we can discern who has what kind of fruits - according to scripture.
     
    #15 gekko, May 17, 2006
  16. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Gekko you have said repeatedly that if a person doesn't have good fruits they aren't saved. And if someone continues in sin they aren't going to heaven. That's knowing whether or not someone is saved.

    You can't tell whether someone is saved whether they ave good fruits or not.

    I just showed you in Scripture that your application of that Scripture was outside of its original intentions and yet you insist on continuing in your false doctrine.
     
    #16 J. Jump, May 17, 2006
  17. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    you can tell if someone has good fruits or not - 'they spring up quickly - and then temptation comes and they fall'

    if someone does continue in sin - they will go to hell.

    please provide scripture that says otherwise.

    thanks for labelling me as being involved in false doctrine - it doesn't help.

    sorry for the "duh's" and what not's...
     
    #17 gekko, May 17, 2006
  18. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    and if someone does not have good fruits - how are they truly christian??
     
    #18 gekko, May 17, 2006
  19. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    let me ask you this:

    do you have love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance?
     
    #19 gekko, May 17, 2006
  20. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Because salvation is not based on fruit. Salvation is based on God's grace and faith. That's how they are a Christian.

    You haven't even provided Scripture to back your own statement. So I'll wait for you to go first.

    You are talking about the parable in Matthew 13 and that chapter is not dealing with salvation by grace through faith. That chapter is dealing with the kingdom of the heavens. You have to keep things in context. Those are two separate messages.
     
    #20 J. Jump, May 17, 2006
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