What if a pastor punches you?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Soulman, Jun 17, 2005.

  1. Soulman

    Soulman
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    A pastor's daughters fiance greatly upset the pastor (father) when he and the pastor's daughter had premarital sex. The pastor attacked him and punched him in the face. (Like most fathers would want to do.)

    He then placed himself under the authority of the assistant pastor for dicipline whom the pastor appointed. This man was also an employee of the church.

    Does this show a conflict of interest? Should he have submitted himself to an unbiased pastor? Should he have stepped down as pastor citing 1Tim. 3:3?

    1 Timothy 3:3
    Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

    How should this type of situation be made right?
     
  2. Rachel

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    Whew thats tough. That sounds ok to me. I sure wouldn't blame him for that. I don't think he should step down as Pastor either. He should apologize to the fiance and maybe get them married sooner.
     
  3. Ulsterman

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    Assuming this is out of character for the pastor concerned, this matter needs to be resolved between the two men involved. To rule the pastor out of the ministry because he once lost his temper is no more justified than ruling him out because he once became impatient.

    I think it is a Matthew 18 situation whereby there needs to be a reconciliation (I am assuming the daughter's fiance is a Christian), and it begins by the meeting of two minds. The fiance needs to acknowledge his wrong, first before God, then before the pastor and his daughter. The pastor needs to seek forgiveness for punching the man.

    There is nothing wrong with calling in the assistant Pastor if they are moving to stage two of the process, but a deacon or other member of staff should also be involved. Then, if no progress is made with the problem, it is on to the church to decide the rights and wrongs of the matter and whether or not they want this man to continue as their minister.
     
  4. Aaron

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    Submitting to a pastor or deacon for discipline is unscriptural. One submits to the church for discipline.

    However, where confession was made and the sin forsaken, there is nothing for the church to discipline.
     
  5. blackbird

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    As a pastor---here is how I would handle the apology!!

    "As a Pastor, boy, I'm sorry I punched you in the mouth! As my Daughter's Father----you will NOT be getting married to her and I don't ever want to see your face again!"

    No excuse for punching! It must be repented of! Never to be done again!

    No excuse for premarital sex! It must be repented of! Never to be done again!
     
  6. Servent

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    Question, what happen to the daughter, she had a part in this also.
     
  7. Ben W

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    He should have submitted to the Eldership of the church, not the Assistant Pastor.

    The problem is that the guy he punched will likely marry his daughter and his relationship between them will never be what it should. Sure they will try and patch it up, but likely the damage is done and that is really sad not just for them but for the grandkids.
     
  8. Rachel

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    You don't think that's too tough? Since they are engaged I say get married as soon as they all repent of their actions. Till then, they shouldn't be alone with each other again. Thinking about it that sounds like the best solution.

    Rachel
     
  9. exscentric

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    Servant [​IMG]

    Deut. 22.28ff also might be a guide.
     
  10. TexasSky

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    I'm not sure the Pastor did anything wrong.
    Wouldn't King David have punched someone too?

    Just kidding.

    Leave it to the Deacons of the Church.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    He lost his temper, a violation of hte pastoral qualifications. If this is a pattern of life for him, then he needs to go find another job outside the ministry. If this was a one time thing, then it needs to be confessed to all who know.

    I am not sure what "submitting to discipline" means in this case. He has openly confessed, apparently. What else is there? Submitting to accountability is different, however. That sound be done.

    What did he do to his daughter? Surely he is not under the impression that the fiance did it himself? It took two of them. If all other things in the relationship are fine, then the couple should continue with the plans to get married. They should either do it right away, as in now, or take careful steps to avoid temptation. Once the wall has been broken down, it is easier to go back.
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

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    The fiance should press assault charges against the father. Although, to keep peace in his new family, he probably wouldn't.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    Whew ... glad to know we can skip that whole forgiveness part.
     
  14. gb93433

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    Takes two to make things happen. Get mad at the boyfriend and not the daughter?
     
  15. StraightAndNarrow

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    That's called assault and battery and should be referred to the police.
     
  16. Benjamin

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    As for permanent damage to the relationship; some of my best friendships started out as a conflict or even a fight from my younger days.

    As for the snibbling coward taking the matter to the police; to me that would show no sign of repentance, revealing what his self centered true intentions were about and where his heart was at present; and although I would be disappointed in my daughters previous actions I would feel confident to say she would not support the fiance’s further rebellion toward her father or lack of repentance toward God’s plan for righteous living whether it be anger, forgiveness, or lust. But then my daughter is perfect!

    And as for confessing to all who know; if they weren’t there they heard of it through gossip and would simply be told it was a personal matter and is being reconciled through proper channels which would be God and I.
     
  17. Gib

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    Can't think of any reason why my pastor would punch me, but if he did, I would punch him back, rub some dirt on it, shake hands and go grab some dinner.
     
  18. webdog

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    What if he shot him? Should his only punishment should come from the church? Assault is assault, whether with a fist or a weapon, and a criminal offense punishable by the authorities. Pastors commit crimes, too. To just brush it under the rug because he is a pastor, would be wrong. He should have called the police...and still forgiven him.
     
  19. Ben W

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    That poses an interesting twist to this that I had not thought of. This guy is a Pastor, and the Bible is clear that people that take leadership positions will be judged in quite a strict manner. He has broken the law, maybe he has to go and hand himself in to the Police for what he has done. Maybe if we consider that as Christians we are taught to obey the laws of the land, then on a Scriptural basis he has to turn himself in?
     
  20. Benjamin

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    Maybe violating a man’s daughter should be a criminal offense punishable by the authorities, it was in the OT law punishable by death, never saw that strong of a punishment for striking in the OT as a matter of fact it would have been justifiable in this case, but maybe one should just take advantage of the secular law and it’s authority and disregard the higher authority altogether after all that would be the righteous new age worldly view way to go just put it in the hands of the righteous police.
     

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