What is a Heathen?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Born Again Catholic, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. Born Again Catholic

    Born Again Catholic
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    Been a lot of talk about heathens lately it is a word used throughout scripture, so what do people interpret this word to mean.
     
  2. DHK

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    Ten percent of Protestants, 21 percent of Roman Catholics, and 52 percent of Jews do NOT believe in God. That's the surprising word from a survey by Harris Interactive of 2,306 adults that shows belief in God varies quite widely among different segments of the American public. How often do we go to a place of worship? Not much. Most people attend a religious service less than once a month. Still, Americans are far more likely to believe in God and to attend religious services than people in most other developed countries, particularly in Europe.
    From Netscape's "What's New"

    At the very least, the 10% of Protestants, the 21% of Catholics, and the 52% of Jews are heathen or pagan. They do not even believe in God. As far as the Bible is concerned there are only two groups of people: Christians and non-Christians. One who is a non-Christian is a heathen or a pagan. In God's sight a pagan Hindu is just as lost as a religious Baptist or Catholic that has not been born again by the Spirit of God. Have you been saved by faith and faith alone, having put that faith in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, believing that His sacrifice was sufficient to atone for the penalty for your sins? There is nothing that you can do (including being baptized) but believe in the work of Christ in order to be saved. If you do not believe this message, and have not trusted Christ, then you are in the same category--a heathen, a pagan. Outside of Christ, you are part of the heathen world.
    DHK
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Pagan and heathen simply refer to people outside of the covenant relationship with YHWH

    Goyim in Hebrew, ethnikos in Greek are the "nations", apart from Judaism.

    Is perfectly legitimate to refer to people outside of the saving relationship with our Lord as "heathen".

    It is NOT good to label whole nations, continents or denominations as "heathen", since we do not know the heart relationship of every member of said group.

    (We have missionaries from "heathen Africa" laboring here in Wyoming on the Wind River Reservation! Africa is NOT heathen!)
     
  4. Born Again Catholic

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    Interesting Dr. Bob mostly would agree with what you wrote although the word has some other meanings. But I have a few questions. I appreciate that generalizations are difficult but would consider a faithful Catholic (not the bench warmers we all share) to be more likely to be a Heathen or a christian.

    After that I will probably drop the subject so as not to get into trouble.
     
  5. JustAsIAm

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    BAC,

    A faithful Catholic with a personal relationship with Christ, would be saved.

    It depends on what they are trusting in: works or God's grace.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    So then we agree - Jews are not heathen.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. Born Again Catholic

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    JustasIam, Dr. Bob etc

    Let me clarify my last question "Do you believe the Catholic faith is a heathen religion?"
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Not "my" definition - goyim/ethniki are biblical words.

    Ah, the "catholic religion" is vastly different than what some catholics believe.

    Salvation is by faith alone by grace alone. It is based 100% on God, not the church, not tradition, not sacraments, etc.

    So I might personally think that most Catholics are NOT born again (as described above) as I've often stated. Their "religion" (your word) is as "heathen" (my word) as it gets - far from biblical Christianity.

    But don't just use the blanket and call catholics "heathen". I have known and do know some who HAVE that salific relationship with God.

    I can't think on ANY active Buddhist, Hindu, Moslem, LDS that I know or heard about that is truly born again. Those religions, along with the New Age or Tribal religions, would all be legitimately classified as "heathen".
     
  9. Jim1999

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    Generally speaking the biblical heathen was Gentile. It classically means the same. In modern ENGLISH,however, it takes on a twist and refers to anone who is not Christian, Jewish or Muslim.

    This is one of those areas where it is som important understand the original meaning to get the text right. Culture,,culture, culture....original speaker..and meaning for to-day.

    The word, however, does not reserve any place for the modern Jew other than lost and in need of the same saving grace we all must have.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. BobRyan

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    It is instructive that the Apostles - the Jewish Christians of the NT - never called Gentile Christians "heathen" nor did they call non-Christian Jews "heathen".


    The argument about the "not truly born again LDS or Moslem" vs the "truly born again non-Christian Jew" should be a good one.

    But is it really correct to say that heathen is defined as all that are not truly "born again"?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Born Again Catholic

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    Dr Bob

    If the Catholic faith is a heathen faith what would that make Baptist and Protestants the illegitimate spawn of heathens?

    Barnabas in defending the bans points out

    Dr. Bob you magnified this supposed insult by 1.2 Billion times (the number of Catholics)and give it no second thoughts, you disagree with our theological position thus the Catholic faith is a heathen faith.

    Long before this supposed insult came along Gina was claiming that Catholics were not christians, thus according to the current definition of the word we must be heathens.

    Is the board planning on taking action against Gina or Dr Bob, will they be banned, unlikely. Baptists or anyone else bashing Catholics may virtually do as they wish but Catholics may only operate in a narrow set of ever changing rules because their arguments have already started to reach to many Baptist hearts, eventhough at outnumbered 100's to 1. The truth can only be suppressed never destroyed.

    A faith built on everyones individual "personal interpretation" of the Bible is the pinacle of a religion bulit by man based on the traditions of men. Maybe not a heathen faith yet but surely on the highway heading there. Each generation of protestants is slipping further away from the truth how can you not see this riptide you are caught in.

    Where do you think your grandkids personal interpretations will lead them abortion(the SBC only recently officially retracted their pro-abortion councils from the 1970's given enough time they will probably flip flop back), gay-marriage(you guys followed the anglicans/epicopalinas as well on contraception in the 1930-40's after always teaching against contraception why not gay marriage theologically they are very related) a revised rapture theory (your current rapture theory as it is now taught is only about 150 years old what will it look like in 150 years)
     
  12. Gina B

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    If that's your view of it, so be it. You joined a Baptist board set up for Baptist discussions that also allows Christians to post within guidelines, not set up for Catholics to prosyletize, not a Catholic board. And yes, I have been saying general Catholocism is false for a long time, long before you joined this board. I have not recently nor ever in the past stated ALL Catholics are heathen.

    The rule not to try to turn people to the Catholic church has been stated repeatedly, yet you refuse to acknowledge it, and not only that emphasize that that is why you are here with this statement:
    I'm not too impressed with your statistics, let alone believe they are something you should take pride in. It was also one angel that sinned, and one man that brought sin into the entire world. A number of Baptist hearts are also turning to mormonism in towns where only 4 missionaries go out and try to reach hundreds of Baptists. What's it mean? It means that false religion is running rampant. Very sad. A lot of Baptist hearts are softened to Islam. Does this mean the "truth" is getting out?

    This discussion is getting old Born Again Catholic. We've discussed the reasons for the bannings a number of times at at length. You're displeased with what happened and how this board is run. We get that. We got that the first time you brought it up. I'm sorry you are so unhappy with it, but that was the decision and it will not change.

    I'm not getting why you're still typing about this. What exactly is it that you feel is going to be a good result of discussing it more? Is there something you truly feel will happen that is good because of it, or are you just letting off steam? Let me know what your goal is, what you are trying to make happen and seem to believe could happen, and make it clear please.

    Gina
     
  13. dianetavegia

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    Gina said: A number of Baptist hearts are also turning to mormonism in towns where only 4 missionaries go out and try to reach hundreds of Baptists.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I read just recently that the number one converts to Mormonism are Baptists! That shocked me so!

    Diane
     
  14. Gina B

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    No, it's the pinacle of the freedom we have in Christ. Study to show yourself approved unto God. Study and follow the scriptures, be guided by the Holy Spirit, seek the wisdom of older and more learned Christians. But never, ever, take a man and hold him up as infallible or otherwise claim him to have attributes exclusive to God. That is the true definition of man worship...err, man based religion.

    Gina
     
  15. Kathryn

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    Anyone who registers and admits they are Catholic, is denied membership. An unknown number of Catholics have been dismissed. The remaining are supposed to keep our faith to ourselves, and have basically been silenced by charges of proslytizing, yet the attacks on the Catholic Church multiply. This is really what Baptistboard seems to want. They want to attack the Catholic Church without having to back up what they claim. They don't want a Catholic response to their claims. The Catholic responses to our ban will be eliminated as easily as we are, and Baptistboard will become just another Catholic bashing web-site. This is BaptistBoard's right, but will leave it a sad, dark place.

    [ March 07, 2004, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
     
  16. Gina B

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    Not sure I get the mentality Kathryn. It sounds as if you believe yourself and others to be persecuted by the baptists here, we're prejudiced, in the dark, without the full truth, yet...? :confused:
    It makes about as much sense to me as walking into a friends house, standing by the front door with the key she gave me to freely come and go, yelling at her if I break her house rules, demand she change who lets in or out, yet I stay and expect kind and civil conversation with her, while I tell everyone else in the house how terrible she is, and how horrible being there is for me.
    Gina
     
  17. Kathryn

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    Are you saying Catholics can join Baptistboard and defend their faith?
     
  18. DHK

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    definition for Heathen from Easton's Bible dictionary.

    Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. (i.e., heathen)

    The heathen, to whom Paul was sent, were all those outside of Christ. There is no such thing as a Christian nation, and no such thing as a Christian religion other than Biblical Christianity, which teaches that salvation is a free gift of God through the sacrifice of Christ to be accepted by the sinner through faith, and faith alone.

    In other words the Roman Catholic Church is a heathen religion for it teaches a works religion based on baptismal regeneration.
    Any person knowing fully what the Catholic church teaches and what the Bible teaches concerning salvation cannot possibly be saved. You must choose one system or the other.
    Take for example the matter of being born again.
    Does John 3:5 have the meaning of baptism, and being saved through baptism taking place at infancy when a person is baptized then. This is what the Catholic churches teaches.

    Or does John 3:5 teach that one must be born again at an age when he can understand the gospel, accept it by faith alone, and be born into God's family by trusting Christ as His Saviour.

    The two interpretations are opposite to one another. You cannot believe both at the same time. You cannot be a Catholic and believe both. They are opposing systems of salvation. Either you are saved by grace through faith, or you are saved through your baptism--not both.
    Either you are a Catholic or a Christian; not both. It is an impossibility to be both--if you understand the theology of both systems. The only way you can be a Christian and a Catholic at the same time is if you are an ignorant Catholic or a disobedient Christian.
    Nevertheless the Roman Catholic Church remains a heathen religion.

    The same holds true for the Mormon church, the relion of the Muslims, the Hindus, Buddhists, etc.
    The Bible says that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. There is no other way but by Him. And that includes the Catholic Church who also thinks that they are the only way to Heaven.
    DHK
     
  19. Gina B

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    DHK, I agree on the church itself, but think some of those who join a Catholic church do so in good conscience, but then as fuller teachings are given they accept them instead of rejecting them and seeking out a proper church.
    I would think that in these cases the word "heretic" is more fitting, for they know the truth and have chosen to later deny it.
    Thus my dislike for ongoing religious conversations with many of them. Three strikes rule from scripture. Same holds true for Baptists who believe and then go join hands with churches that teach false doctrines.
    Gina
     
  20. Barnabas H.

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    Kathryn, I respectfully disagree with you. As you see, you can and you will be able to express your opinion, your brand of doctrine on this board as long as you wish. But this is not what I see you doing. You are kind of complaining and whining about nonsense.

    In our Posting Rules it is written that your views will be challenged. If you are up to it in replying a charge then do it (provided you are doing it in a kind spirit), if you are not then keep silent. But nobody is silencing the truth on the Baptist Board, don't even try to insinuate that we do! Because that is not the truth, and that is not building the body of Christ.

    Now as far as banning certain Catholics from the board, yes we did that, but there was a strong case against them because they shifted from simply sharing their faith to calling people over to their websites, and asking them to try the Catholic faith. Some even bragged about how they led a Baptist person back to the true Church, the Catholic Church. Now that is proselytizing. And if you do not like the term, then I suggest you use the Catholic term, which is "sheep stealing". At any rate, the militant Catholics had to go for refusing to follow the simple guidelines we established long ago. They can blame only themselves, and they do not need any defense from you.

    Kathryn, fare well and you will be respected and allowed to post on the Baptist Board. On the other hand if you only know how to bicker and find fault in whatever we try to maintain here on this board, then I suggest you go someplace else where your efforts will be appreciated. Trust that you will refrain from posting similar texts on the board, for that will not help your future stay here and it will be deleted by the Moderators. [​IMG]

    P.S. As far as addressing the topic of this thread, may I interject that one of the former Catholic member, Carson Weber, called one of our lady Moderators (Helen) a heathen - for her Biblical views. Those of us who know Helen beg our difference with Carson on this respect. :cool:
     

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