What is a Liberal Baptist Church?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by tinytim, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
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    After reading some threads on here by fundamentalists, i've realized that in a lot of people's minds the opposite of fundamental is "liberal"

    Please give examples of things that can either go on in a church, or certain doctrines a church can have that would cause that church to be labeled "liberal".
     
  2. Jim Ward

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    What standard would you like for us to use?
     
  3. tinytim

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    I am just interested in hearing what different Baptists consider liberal.
     
  4. Frogman

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    Close/Open Communion is one right of the top of my head.

    It is late, and the top of my head is hanging pretty low right now, so I will give this some thought and say more later.

    God Bless Brother TinyTim

    Bro. Dallas
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    I used to believe that a liberal is one:

    1. Who does not use the KJV as his Bible;
    2. Who smokes and takes a little wine now and
    then;
    3. Who goes and sees movies inside a moviehous;
    4. Who goes to church in shorts, or anything
    that makes him/her feel comfortable;
    5. Does not believe all of the Bible is God's
    Word;
    6. Does not believe in the virgin birth;
    7. Does not believe in the efficacy, past,
    present, and future, of the blood of Christ;
    8. Does not believe the Bible is God's Word, in
    contrast to number 5 where only not all is
    the Word of God;
    9. Graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary;
    10. Graduated from Union Theological Seminary;

    31 years and a little more wisdom later, I've whittled it down to four - numbers 5 thru 8. Maybe I'll discover a few more things farther on, and the list will grow again.
     
  6. GrannyGumbo

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    IMO, a liberal Baptist church is one that compromises; they do not stand against the tide. [​IMG]
     
  7. Ed Edwards

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    What i thought of as the most liberal
    Southern Baptist Church in my town
    has gone and joined the Conservative Baptist
    Fellowship (CBF).

    I always thought there was a
    conservative, moderate, and liberal dimension
    and a dimension: fundamental, evangelical,
    and High Church.

    But since i've been on Baptist board,
    i'm beginning to wonder if there aren't a
    lot of one dimensional christians?

    [​IMG]

    [ March 16, 2004, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Ed Edwards ]
     
  8. Frogman

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    Granny and Pinyobaptist, I am agreed with the both of you.

    More liberality than the word of God, that would be the real test.

    Brother Ed, I don't know what a 'high' church is. What would a 1 dimensional christian be, out of curiosity?


    It is good all of us are in conservative churches :D
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  9. Ed Edwards

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    Three weeks
    ago i went to a we-won't-tell-you
    what-denomination-we-are chruch to see
    my Grandson Baptized. The preacher has become
    the state director for the Rod Parsley
    denomination. (yes, each famous TV
    parsonality starts their own denomination).
    Anyway, no order of service.
    High church has every thing on the order
    of service, including most of what is said.
    So what is to be said on 28 March morning
    service has alredy been written out,
    parts of it years ago.

    In this deminsion i really had a problem.
    I think the fundamental and the evangelical
    are alright, it is the slot I called "hi church".

    I really think the two dimensions are:

    1. fundamental, evangelical, liberal-1
    2. conservative, moderate, liberal-2

    So actually here we will getting two
    different liberals defined.
    Additionally, Liberal is a direction
    on both scales (the opposite direction
    is fundamental on one scale and conservative
    on the other scale). So we will also
    get the definion of "more liberal than I am".

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Plain Old Bill

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    Dear Tinytim,
    I think Bro. Edwards would agree with me when you talk about "high Church", those would be the churches who follow a litrurgical format.Catholic,Epicopal,Greek Orthodox,Lutheran to some extent.
    As for the rest,it sort of works out that "the beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
    I think everybody to the "right of me is a legalist","everybody to the left is conservative or liberal",I and just a few others are just right true fundamentals.
    Liberals are generally those who support "pro Choice(abortion)","gay rights",women pastors,the Bible is a bunch of good stories with good advice, but is not to be taken as the true Word of God.Baptist would include infant baptism,open communion,sprinkling instead of full immersion for baptism.
    Charismatitics would consider themselves fundamentalist.Most true Fundamentalist would consider them apostate and heretical.
    Assembly of God and most Pentecostal groups consider themselves fundamental.Most Fundamental Baptist groups disagree because we disagree doctrinally and the fact they ordain and support women clergy.
    The list goes on and on.You can get a handbook on denominations and get a fair general idea of who is who and where they stand. Hope this helps some.
     
  11. Greg Linscott

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    Brother Ed,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the CBF the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, not Conservative? If I'm not mistaken, that is the "progressive" wing of the SBC, is it not?

    Not to be nitpicky, but that does change the implications of your observation...
     
  12. Ed Edwards

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    Brother Ed,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the CBF the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, not Conservative? If I'm not mistaken, that is the "progressive" wing of the SBC, is it not?

    Not to be nitpicky, but that does change the implications of your observation...
    </font>[/QUOTE]I checked it. You are correct.
    I slobber profusely many apologies.

    However, though my example may lack correctness,
    my statements stand firm on the other three legs
    (you know, the virutal legs [​IMG] )

    I was really shocked at that church. I
    was going to a grief group. The Minister
    of Senior Adults, a lady, was talking along
    and suddenly said that which took me aback:
    "My Deacon, she ... " Yep, the women
    pastors are called "minister" to hid the
    fact they are pastors; but the women
    deacons are openly called "deacon".

    Needless to say, that church runs a tad
    more "liberal" than i am.


    The cooperative baptist fellowshi (CBF)
    is not affiliated with the SBC.
    However it might be called the
    progressive wing of the SBC.
    Many members of the CBF contribute to
    it and the SBC. They contribute to the SBC
    to maintain their money giving membership
    but they support the CBF to cater to people who
    are more interestd in theology than money.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Johnv

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    What is a Liberal Baptist Church?

    Typically, it's any Baptist church that does something I don't like. That's pretty much most peoples' definition, though few will admit it ;)
     
  14. C.S. Murphy

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    You don't like it, I thought you liked your church a little LIBERAL. [​IMG]
     
  15. Trotter

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    OK, now. Let's watch the SBC remarks. I am SBC, and probably more conservative than the majority on this Board.

    I guess I could become an IFB, but my beliefs line up with the Baptist Faith and Message (even though it is rather vague).

    As to all the things listed above that would make a church "liberal", well, no need to worry. This here ole SBC boy has no use for it, no matter what ya'll might think of some of the others who are in the SBC.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  16. rsr

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    Bro. Ed said:

    That might have been true at one time, but not now. The CBF has made it clear it is independent, and the recent unpleasantness over the BWA has confirmed that. Yes, there are some (and a shrinking number) dually affiliated churches and some crossover, but I think the blanket has finally been torn.

    (This differs from state convention to state convention; a BGCT church could well be a CBF church, but that's not possible in most places, such as north of the Red River.)

    I assume you're talking about FBC Norman.
     
  17. Jim Ward

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    Let me first apologize to pinoybaptist for taking the first 8 things he listed. I am using them because they do define, to me, what a liberal Christian, or, for this thread, Baptist Church.


    1. Who does not use the KJV as his Bible;
    2. Who smokes and takes a little wine now and
    then;
    3. Who goes and sees movies inside a moviehous;
    4. Who goes to church in shorts, or anything
    that makes him/her feel comfortable;
    5. Does not believe all of the Bible is God's
    Word;
    6. Does not believe in the virgin birth;
    7. Does not believe in the efficacy, past,
    present, and future, of the blood of Christ;
    8. Does not believe the Bible is God's Word, in
    contrast to number 5 where only not all is
    the Word of God;
    9. Does not believe in ecclesiastical seperation;
    10. Is a denominational Church.


    That's all I can think of for now, if I think of anything else, I'll post it.


    Jim
     
  18. aefting

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    Spiritual liberalism is simply the denial of the fundamental doctrines of Scripture -- virgin birth, blood atonement, miracles, justification by faith alone, diety of Christ, etc. It is the spirit of unbelief in what God has clearly revealed.

    Broader evangelicalism is not liberal. You can't be an evangelical and a liberal at the same time. One group is saved, the other is not.


    Andy
     
  19. tinytim

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    Thank you all, I see there are as many definitions of liberal as there are Baptists.

    That makes some sort of sense, I guess.

    Taking all you all have said so far, most all agree that if someone is against the five fundamentals they are liberal.

    Of course you have the extra things like Pants on women, and smoking, etc. that some will disagree with.

    But most will agree on the five fundamentals.

    Are there any women preachers/pastors/ministers on BB? What about deaconesses?
     
  20. Daniel David

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    Tim, you could have just sent me a PM. A liberal is anyone who disagrees with me.
     

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