What is "given unto him" - Jn. 6:65

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. - Jn. 6:64-65

    1. Whatever is "given unto him" must come originate with "my Father."

    2. Whatever is "given unto him" must be what he had previously spoken about in verse 44 as he says, "Therefore I said unto you" and the nearest reference is verse 44.

    3. In verse 44 what the Father does is identified as "draw him" therefore "given unto him" is substituted for "draw him" - therefore drawing and giving are inseparable and originate with the Father.

    But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you


    4. Coming to Christ is defined as believing in him in John 6:35


    And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.


    5. Coming is the flip side of drawing - if one is drawn to you they are coming to you. If "draw" means ability and "cometh" is faith in Christ then coming to Christ is the ability given by God alone as both are derived from God - vv. 44,65 Therefore "THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD that ye believe" - Jn. 6:29 - drawing is coming to Christ by faith.

    6. John 6:37-39 declare that ALL who come to Christ have been been given to Christ to come to Him and NOTHING "given" shall be lost. Hence, if "draw" and "given" are inseparable then all given equal all drawn and none given shall be lost.

    7. John 12:32 follows John 6:37-65. John 6:37-65 is defintive and explanatory of what it means to be drawn and given BY THE FATHER and who it is that is drawn and given while John 12:32 simply asserts that Christ (not the Father) will draw "all" (no "men" in Greek text) to Himself. So Jesus is taling about HIS OWN WORK spelled out in John 6:38-39 in performing the will of the Father. Jesus came down to do the will of the Father (v. 38). What does Jesus have to do, to do the will of the Father?

    And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    Not ALL mankind without exception have even heard of the cross much less been drawn to Christ.

    Therefore, the term "all" here means "ALL mankind without distinction of race, gender or position" and has direct contextual reference the gentiles seeking him in John 12:19-22. These were part of the "other" sheep not of this fold (Jewish) and "OF ALL" that the Father gave him (Jn. 6:39).
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 14, 2013
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  2. TisMe

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    Sorry, but I cannot agree with this interpretation.
     
  3. The Biblicist

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    That is fine! However, you should have a valid reason why you think that my view violates the immediate context of John 6:37-65? Perhaps some time you might care to share your reasons. However, if not, that is fine.

    I find that people who embrace error are usually either led by their feelings or traditions rather than the Word of God, or they don't properly intepret scriptures by the immediate context. Usually they practice the "proof text" method that jerks a text out of its own context and then pits it against other scriptures or interpretations of those scriptures. Bottom line - they haven't done their homework properly and can't really provide any legitimate contextual based reasons for what they believe or don't believe.
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Jun 14, 2013
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  4. The Biblicist

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    If I am wrong in my contextual based reasoning above, then please point out the flaw where my reasoning departed from the contextual evidence?
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    POretty starightforward in this chapter, as jesus informs us thatONLY those chosen by the Father will get drawn to and saved by Christ!
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Some have simply said they do not agree with the above indisputable contextual based facts. They offer no contextual based response. They cannot point out any contextual based error. They simply assert what they cannot prove or provide to support their assertion.
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    Opponents to OSAS have not dared to address this thread from a contextual basis. The best they have been able to do is make assertions with not one single solitary contextual basis for their assertion.

    My point for focusing on John 6:35-65 is that this context makes it impossible to repudiate OSAS. The opponents of OSAS cannot defend their assertions with any kind of honest contextual based arguments.

    I openly challenge them to try to demonstrate an exegetical/expositional to repudiate my contextual based exposition. Bob Ryan has not even attempted to address the basis of this thread from a contextual basis. Not one of his compadres have even attempted.
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Again, where are the OSAS opponents and their expositional expertise when it comes to examining each point????
     

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